Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

[90sTrekGuy]

There is also the Ferengi rule,,peace is good for business.

Its easy to get them confused!

 

[kkt]

I always wondered whether that Tulaberry Wine contract was how the Changelings infiltrated the Alpha Quadrant. That they basically rode in on those cargo ships, and started replacing key figures like Martok.

Maybe the changelings were quick-witted enough to send some of their own cloaked ships with Founders and Jem Hadar, and whatever they need to make a Jem Hadar hatching factory through the wormhole at the same time as Leyton's people were making it open and close in Paradise Lost. Hide in plain sight.

 

[at Quark's]

Maybe the Ferengi could have made a deal with the Dominion to prevent the war...

Why would they? War is good for business.

And the Dominion on the other hand -that is, the Founders- don't seem particularly interested in money or other possessions as ends in themselves. Just in imposing their 'order' on the galaxy and be safe from the 'threat' of the 'chaotic' Solids. So I don't think they could be bribed.

 

[Reymet_2]

Maybe the changelings were quick-witted enough to send some of their own cloaked ships with Founders and Jem Hadar, and whatever they need to make a Jem Hadar hatching factory through the wormhole at the same time as Leyton's people were making it open and close in Paradise Lost

There was no need (and possibility) in any Jem'Hadar presence in the Alpha Quadrant before By Inferno's Light. There were only several infiltrators.

 

[Lynx]

There was no need (and possibility) in any Jem'Hadar presence in the Alpha Quadrant before By Inferno's Light. There were only several infiltrators.

But those infiltrators were the spearhead of further Dominion actions in the Alpha Quadrant they would have invaded sooner or later.

 

[Reymet_2]

But those infiltrators were the spearhead of further Dominion actions in the Alpha Quadrant they would have invaded sooner or later.

We don't know what were the exact Dominion plans before Tain tried to launch a preemptive strike. Without it there would have been no fall of Cardassia's military government and therefore no Klingon-Cardassian war and Cardassian accession to the Dominion.

And even after The Die is Cast, had Gowron been not that aggressive to attack Cardassia, the Dominion would have had to wait for a chance to gain a foothold in the AQ for a long time.

 

[Reymet_2]

We do know from “Accession” (the one where they send the poet Akorem from the past to help “The Sisko” to realize he’s the Emissary) they somehow have the ability to violate causality and can allow paradoxes to exist.

Prophets are not the only mean of time travel so causality is basically non-existent in the Star Trek universe.

Sisko, Kira, and I guess everyone else are able to remember 2 different timelines, the original one where Akorem doesn’t finish his poetry, and a new one where he does. Even though, that shouldn’t be possible.

The exact same thing happens in almost every single case of time travel (e. g. Children of Time which didn't involve the Prophets).

Time travel itself doesn't make things deterministic.

 

[Lynx]

We don't know what were the exact Dominion plans before Tain tried to launch a preemptive strike. Without it there would have been no fall of Cardassia's military government and therefore no Klingon-Cardassian war and Cardassian accession to the Dominion.

And even after The Die is Cast, had Gowron been not that aggressive to attack Cardassia, the Dominion would have had to wait for a chance to gain a foothold in the AQ for a long time.

But as we saw in the episode The Adversary, The Dominion had started a full-scale operation to infiltrate the powers of the Alpha Quadrant which could be seen as a first step to a full-scale invasion.

They did actually try to create a wr between the federation and the Tzenkheti Alliance.

The Dominion also infiltrated the Klingons in order to create war between the Klingon Empire and the Cardassian Union.

According to Memory Alpha:
In mid-2371, this changeling replaced General Martok while hunting saber bear along Kang's Summit on Qo'noS. Following his capture, the real Martok was sent to Internment Camp 371. (DS9: "In Purgatory's Shadow") The changeling's mission was to increase hostilities with the Cardassian Union and United Federation of Planets in order to weaken each organization. (DS9: "The Way of the Warrior", "Apocalypse Rising")

In early 2372, the changeling convinced Chancellor Gowron that a recent coup on Cardassia Prime was effected by the Dominion. After leading a fleet to Deep Space 9, the Klingons invaded Cardassian space. The Martok Changeling also attempted to incite conflict between the Federation and the Klingon Empire; to this end, he had Kaybok, one of his commanders, executed for refusing to fire on the USS Defiant.

Martok and Gowron later led the Klingons in an attack on Deep Space 9. He attempted to continue the battle even when the odds turned against the Klingons, but was overruled by Gowron. Nevertheless, the incident led to a year-and-a-half conflict between the Klingon Empire and the Federation in a conflict lasting from 2372 to 2373. (DS9: "The Way of the Warrior").

So when Gowron attacked Cardassia, he actually did it because of the scemes of the changeling who had replaced Martok. Gowron thought that the Cardassian government was infiltrated by changelings, instead it was his own general who was the changeling.

 

[Reymet_2]

What if China told everyone in the world, "Stay out of the Pacific Ocean, or there will be war.", or what if India said, "Don't sail the Indian Ocean, it's ours, so if you enter it we will go to war!"

I'm now watching Voyager's In the Flesh and there is an exact same situation featuring Federation and 8472 - Janeway wants "a damn good explanation for what you're doing in our galaxy" from the 8472. Ignoring the fact that the whole galaxy doesn't belong to the Federation and the 8472 are in their rights to do anything in neutral DQ space.

But when it's Dominion, that's different. Because they are bad guys and the Federation are good.

 

[Pumpkin Bread]

Janeway wants "a damn good explanation for what you're doing in our galaxy" from the 8472

I think a big part of it is "why have you completely duplicated Starfleet Academy?"

 

[Boo-khat!]

I think a big part of it is "why have you completely duplicated Starfleet Academy?"

This. 8472 was very obviously ready to invade the Alpha Quadrant, just like the Dominion was. But Janeway was able to avert that from happening.

 

[Weyoun 251]

If one looks at the Dominion War story-arc as a whole, their curiosity about Odo was their undoing.

My guess is their justification for their actions in "The Search" was that Odo was trying to come home. They seemed to have done something that gave him an urge to come home. He was motivated to go on the mission, and was being drawn to the Omarian Nebula the moment they crossed into the Gamma Quadrant. "No Changeling has harmed another." Would denying a Changeling the ability to come back to the Great Link be considered "harm" among their community?

It's their need to connect with Odo that betrays their existence as the Founders.

It's their failure to understand why Odo remains at DS9 with Kira and the crew, and why Odo defends them against other Changelings, that leads to them punishing him, and infecting the entire Great Link with the Section 31 virus.

And in the end, it's Odo going home that causes their surrender.

I've always assumed that's what happened in the alternate timeline of "The Visitor."

There's been no war with the Dominion in that timeline. Since I don't think the show would want people to think removing Sisko from the timeline leads to a kind-of peace, I always assumed the Klingons being given control of Deep Space Nine leads to the Martok-Changeling opening the door wide, and all the major powers have basically been neutered.

If you come at the episode from that perspective, it does give more purpose to "Old" Jake's obsession with bringing Sisko back. Leading a "normal" life was never possible, since Jake was really living in a dystopia controlled by the Dominion without anyone knowing it.

Could be that Sisko dying leads to a rapid Klingon expansion into Cardassian territory as it is he who kind of drags the UFP kicking and screaming into trying to protect the Cardies

UFP decides instead to avoid war themselves and not censure the Klingons' actions so the three main powers retain their relative strength and equilibrium and so become less of an easy target

Likely the Founders gamble on the cyclical nature of war in the Alpha Quadrant and leave well enough alone and gamble that one of the Klingons or Romulans will eventually make their move and the three will do such damage that the Dominion can then stroll in and pick them off

 

[Frontis]

I'm now watching Voyager's In the Flesh and there is an exact same situation featuring Federation and 8472 - Janeway wants "a damn good explanation for what you're doing in our galaxy" from the 8472. Ignoring the fact that the whole galaxy doesn't belong to the Federation and the 8472 are in their rights to do anything in neutral DQ space.

But when it's Dominion, that's different. Because they are bad guys and the Federation are good.

Species 8472 actually just wanted be left alone after they have been attacked by the Hirogen and the Borg.

 

[Pumpkin Bread]

Species 8472 actually just wanted be left alone after they have been attacked by the Hirogen and the Borg.

And they weren't sure what to make of the Federation, so they wanted to slip in a few operatives. The faux Academy really was a training facility.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It seemed pretty clear the Dominion had plans to take over the alpha quadrant. They wanted to do it by slowly undermining leadership so they could just march in and take over with no resistance. But the Founders fundamentally believed all solids would destroy them if given the chance and the only way not to give them the chance is to dominate them absolutely.

 

[Tomalak]

Pretty obvious that the Founders had agents in the Alpha Quadrant very early on, possibly during S2 when we first heard the Dominion being mentioned. War was inevitable, it was only a question of when, and even destroying the wormhole would only have delayed it.

They must have already replaced Lovok and Martok by the start of S3, beginning the strategic plan to wipe out Cardassian and Romulan intelligence ability, undermining the Cardassian government and leaving them vulnerable to Founder-Martok's invasion the following year.

When the Kerensky Changeling says "we're everywhere", he's not exaggerating.

PIC also establishes the presence of dozens of Changelings in the Federation at this time. S31 had already developed the virus and implanted it into Odo little over a year after Sisko and co learned that the Founders were Odo's people. Did S31 know earlier than this?

 

[kkt]

And it's not done at the end of What We Left Behind. The Founders have probably had a massive expeditionary force on its way to the Alpha Quadrant by Season 5, because they know a single wormhole to support the war effort isn't going to be enough. They have those long-range transporters, maybe a series of stations at the long end of the range they support, kind of like the Pacific Campaign airfields in World War II.

There's potential for a good sequel in one of the future series, or a movie.

 

[at Quark's]

Could the Dominion war have been avoided?

Sure. The easiest way would have been to humbly submit to the Dominion without any conflict when their intentions became clear, but for some reason, that never seems to have been an option for the Federation.

(That's not meant to be taken seriously, of course, but I do wonder how the Dominion would have treated the Federation had they done that).

 

[Tomalak]

Probably welcomed it - after disbanding Starfleet and executing all civilian and military leadership.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

It's not like Rick Berman had the power to stop it