Could every race join the Federation?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Narwhals!, May 23, 2014.

  1. Narwhals!

    Narwhals! Cadet Newbie

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    Title sums it up, could any of you see a future where a number of the known major races of Milky Way (Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Ferengi) would join the Federation? Or perhaps, due to the size of the Romulan and Klingon empires, a merging of the major powers? I don't just mean an alliance, but a full joining of the Alpha and Beta quadrant powers.
    If yes, then perhaps detail how you think the arrangement would work. If no, explain why this kind of "Galactic Federation" could never exist.

    EDIT: Going even further, could you see even the Dominion races joining? FYI, I've only seen TNG,TOS and all the movies, so my knowledge of lore and information shown on DS9, VOY, and ENT is spotty at best.

    Qapla'!
     
  2. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Ghost of Tom Joad Premium Member

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    Don't see why they couldn't.
     
  3. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Sure why not.
     
  4. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I think some species have goals too incompatible with the Federation to ever join. Like the Borg.

    I suspect the only way you could unify an entire galaxy would be through hostile means.
     
  5. Wadjda

    Wadjda Commander Red Shirt

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    I am no9t sure if Klingons coul ever be peaceful.
     
  6. surak-toc

    surak-toc Commander Red Shirt

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    I reckon so, if there was branches of the federation in different quadrants to accomidate them all
     
  7. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If the Klingon Empire and the Federation were to come together, I would see it as less the Empire joining the Federation and more of a merge into something new. Both the Empire and the Federation would cease to exist in favor of the new organization.

    The governing body would be neither on Kronos nor Earth. Somewhere more centrally located.

    Could the Borg join? The drones would have to have their individuality "switched back on," the collective would make decisions (not just the queen), and they could return to their original species if they so choosed, leave the collective. I doubt the egotistical queen would agree.

    :)
     
  8. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Do the Borg count as a race? They're more a synthetic illness.

    Of course all races could eventually join. Some like the Klingons would require a whole lot of cultural change before they would ever want to. But that's the whole premise of the series, that people can change and move toward peace over a long period of time.
     
  9. doctorfoto

    doctorfoto Commodore Commodore

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    The Jem'Hadar would find it nearly impossible to integrate into the Federation, unless I suppose the Founders joined as well and knew of a way to release their hold on them, temper them from their aggressive tendencies and free them from the White - but that's a lot of ifs.
     
  10. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It might not be as difficult as all that, since presumably the Founders know what base species they used to create the Jem'Hadar from (I doubt they made them from whole cloth.) Some gene therapy using them, once again, as source material to reintroduce a more balanced set of traits might do the trick.
     
  11. Annorax849

    Annorax849 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The Conspiracy Aliens might be a tough sell, unless they somehow get willing hosts or androids or something...
     
  12. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm assuming you are meaning the prime universe.

    Klingons:
    If as presented up to DS9, I doubt the Klingons would accept a government like the Federation: they are still too warlike and I would doubt the Federation would even accept their application without major changes the Klingons would likely not accept anyway (IE term empire implies they still conquer territory and subjugate people). The Klingons also still seem xenophobic when it comes to government (they slam humans at every turn as being to weak, criticize anything that isn't the "Klingon way"), and I don't see the Klingon High Council being subordinate to the Federation, or the Klingon populace allowing it. I think the best that could be hoped for is an alliance between the two. The Klingon Empire is too large to be absorbed, being nearly as large as the Federation, with a government and military as strong, so I don't see the Klingons needing to be part of anything other their own empire.

    Romulans If after the destruction of Romulus and Remus, I think it is conceivable the Romulans would consider becoming part of the Federation.

    They have these things going for it:
    1. The worlds that have been subjugated by the Romulan Empire (as with Klingons, this implies they conquer other worlds), without a central government, Romulan forces would splinter without a strong leadership to unite them, and many worlds might just rebel and regain independence.

    2.The Romulan government seemed pretty oppressive, and even common Romulans (based on Unification) seem to always be looking over their shoulder for the Tal Shiar. With the seat of that government destroyed, I think maybe the Romulan people remaining on other worlds, along with the worlds they oppressed would throw off the yoke of the Romulan Star Empire.

    3. The Federation would likely extend a hand to help survivors of Romulus/Remus, and gain good will from the remnants of the Romulan Empire, as well as the worlds no longer under their domination.

    4. I think Vulcan in particular would be likely to try to help their Romulan cousins. If the movement started by Spock still survived the destruction of Romulus/Remus, it is conceivable that the surviving members of the Romulan race would finally see the illogical effects of empire, and how it brought about the destruction of their world. Perhaps enough Romulans would embrace logic and the Vulcan way, if not to be like Vulcans, then perhaps more peaceful and willing to accept a way of life in line with the Federation. As for the conquered worlds formerly under Romulan Empire control, it would be literally a case by case basis.

    Cardassians: If as presented up to the end of DS9, it seems that Cardassia's government had collapsed, and Cardassia was essentially destroyed, not unlike Germany after WW2. Whatever worlds Cardassia had conquered were likely no longer under their control. I can see a scenario where the Cardassians see the mistake of having followed leaders like Gul Dukat and the Dominion, rejecting the idea of empire, and with both Bajor and the Federation leading efforts to help rebuild Cardassia, I can see where the Cardassians would be open to joining the Federation.

    Ferengi: Kind of depends on how well the Ferengi accept reforms instituted by Rom. Despite their greed, the Ferengi don't seem warlike, and really not all that incompatible with the Federation. The biggest obstacle besides their system of unfettered and pure capitalism, is how they treat females, but it seems that under Rom, things like that will be reformed. But if a Ferengi like Quark can change as he did over the course of DS9, I think it is possible that if the Ferengi became less obsessed with profit, it's possible they would one day join the Federation.

    Dominion worlds: A little more complex here. The Dominion surrendered to the Federation in an effort to end the war, meaning they would no longer come across the wormhole to fight. It really didn't say they would merge with the Federation. I suppose by having Odo become part of the Link, the Founders would have a better understanding of solids and the Federation, and may be persuaded to take the treaty ending the war one step further and even cooperate with the Federation, but I think there is too much left unknown, as to whether they would join the Federation. I tend to think the Gamma quadrant is too far from the Federation with the Wormhole being the only connection, for the Dominion worlds to want to join. The biggest problem I have is the Founders are literally seen as gods by the Vorta and the Jem'hadar, who are the enforcers of the Dominion, literally genetically engineered to follow the Founders's will and see it done. That in of itself is an action the Federation would not allow, and would require the Founders to abdicate their status as "gods." Also, while Odo's influence may change the Founders' view, there is also the double-edged sword that maybe Odo would be changed by the Link. What if Odo's idea of joining the Link to "teach" the other Founders about his experiences is rejected, and they change Odo as a result to be more like them?

    SO, I think the best we would see is cooperation between the two powers, namely when the two sides open up a trade, or when one side crosses the wormhole to explore on the other side.

    As to the Breen, Gorn, Tholians, Orions, or some other antagonistic governments, I don't think they would want to join. Individuals, maybe, but not en bloc.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2014
  13. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^^^
    But are we talking about whether they would join as of Stardate 54999, or, are we talking about whether they would ever join, over the course of centuries?

    Certainly out of all the galactic powers, Cardassians are the most likely to join soon, just because based on their planet being almost completely devastated and government destroyed, merging into the biggest AQ power which is perfectly willing to donate their time and resources to protect them and help them rebuild would seem like an awfully attractive option.

    Between the other AQ powers, I'd say the Klingons and breen are the farthest off, just because the Klingons are likely to have the kind of stability under Martok that they haven't seen in decades, and the Breen are the most isolated. TOS races like the Tholians it's hard to tell because we don't have canon sources for the state of their domain as of the late 24th century. They all seem on friendly terms with the Federation at this point, and are likely to join at a time they're feeling less than stable.

    The Dominion is probably centuries off from joining if they ever do. Becoming allies as the Klingons are is more likely in the forseeable future, but for that to happen they'd have to start seeing solids as equals which is again a long way off, even if Odo convinces them to be nicer to the solids they rule.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2014
  14. Vandervecken

    Vandervecken Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I see any such AQ governmental merger getting its start as a military mutual-protection pact against the Borg or another outside threat (eg, Species 8472 if they stay nasty). That's what happened with the Dominion, who I don't see ajoinin' up either.

    But, as others here have already noted, the result would no longer be the Federation or any one of the others. It'd be a new thing.

    No way Jose the Borg can join as they are now! To join, they'd pretty much have to stop being the Collective, at minimum. That, or somehow the Collective would have to end all assimilation.
     
  15. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Captain Captain

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    If only they acted more like Tok'Ra instead of Goa'Uld...
     
  16. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Klingon have too many hard-core cultural customs they wont be willing to give up.

    Plus they have a feudal style government that might be too incompatible with the Federation's requirement for democracy.

    They might be satisfied with being just allies--they already have free transit through each others space, a mutual defense pact, an open trade between the two.

    It seems that the main reason any of these powers would join the Federation is if they know (or believe) they will enjoy long term benefits from doing it, so it seems that the Cardassians might likely join the Fed long before the Romulans will.
     
  17. -Brett-

    -Brett- Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :confused: Romulus was destroyed by a supernova. A natural disaster.

    If anything, their imperialist tendencies saved the species. They weren't on one planet to be wiped out all at once. At least not that we know of.
     
  18. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Conjecture on both our parts!

    But, I think its conceivable that Spock's unification movement could have spread off Romulus to other Romulan-held worlds. In fact, it would be more likely to thrive off world, than Romulus itself. I choose to think that a lot of Romulans who survived off world, might want to look at the destruction of Romulus as a wake-up call of what becomes of empires, and listen to what their Vulcan cousins have to say, especially if Vulcan and the Federation are there to offer a helping hand in the time of such disaster.

    But you are right, it could just as easily go the other way, and the surviving Romulans could co hyper-militant, in an effort to preserve their race.

    The big question that would answer that would be this: how many Romulans are left, and what is their military capability, now? The lower the number and less military capability there is, I would like to think the more likely the Romulans would be willing to let go of their old ways, and join the Federation, and possibly even consider the Vulcan way of life. After all, it took a war that almost destroyed Vulcan before Vulcans were ready for Surak's teachings. Pretty much the same for Earth: it took WWIII before Earth changed. Maybe with Romulus destroyed, the Romulans are ready for Surak's and Spock's teachings?
     
  19. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    In the case of the RSE, we don't know how they ruled worlds with other races on, if there were controlled through the use of force or threat of force with the destrcton of the Romulan Star System some might sieze the opportunity and revolt and try and gain theri independance.

    Perhaps whilst relations between the UFP and the RSE had warmed, the RSE delayed before asking for Federation assistance in regards to the Supernova. All we can do is engage in conjecture
     
  20. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Having incompatible government to join the Federation now != Never having compatible government at any point in the next few hundred years. Just look how fast Japan became democratic after WWII. Probably several of the Federation member worlds are only a few centuries removed from a dictatorship.

    It's unclear how much lead time the Romulans had to evacuate Romulus before the supernova (If you even consider the two versions of Trek to occur in the same universe), but probably long enough to evacuate a good number of their citizens, and certainly long enough to evacuate their military. It's probably the poorer of the civilians who died in the supernova. But it's also possibly the case that due to their destroyed infrastructure, their economy collapsed so bad that the Empire was overthrown by a democratic revolution after, in which case they may join the Federation a couple decades after.