I'm making a new thread about this because this discussion was started in a previous thread, however, to continue it in there would spoil DS9 for someone who hasn't seen that far into the series yet.
Reason I'm making this thread is to further make the case that the Dominion is not bad, and the Federation is not good. Or at the very least, they are both very simlarly bad and good to almost equal degrees.
Not all races are interested in being the guinea pigs for the Federation's exploration fetish. But, the Federation pre-supposes that role upon all unknown races in the univese. They assume that because they like to explore everywhere, all other races should be willing to accomodate their desires. In my view this is an immoral assumption on the part of the Federation in which they are, to a certain degree, trying to assume the role of gods for themselves.
Secondly, the Federation doesn't really explore just for the sake of exploring. Ultimately, their goal is to assimilate new planets into the Federation fold. As Eddington so clearly points out. This is also evident in the very first episode, in which Picard orders Sisko that Sisko's orders are to "Make Bajor ready!" to join the Federation. Whether that's in the best interest of Bajor or if Bajor wants to or not, who cares. Having Bajor sign on the line that is dotted and thereby expand the Federation empire by joining, is the only thing that matters.
The Federation also tries to impose it's way of life on it's member planets who it is at the same time shadily trying to recruit. Like Bajor. We see the Feds assuming the god role for themselves again by saying Bajor can't join if it uses a caste system. Reasonably, Bajor using a caste system is none of the Federation's darn business. And it definitely shows that the Feds do not embrace new ways of life. Rather, they assimilate everyone into their own way of life.
As for the Dominion attacking the Federation right away: solids, and possibly some members of the Federation, have done that to the Founders for many centuries. Therefore, the Dominion had a totally moral, rational reason for reacting as they did to solids creeping up on them without permission. Even if the argument that it wasn't the Federation members specifically who attacked the Founders is used, that is rendered a moot point when the series is taken as a whole. The Federation has by it's own actions - namely, creating the genocide disease against the Founders - then refusing to allow the cure to the genocide disease to be providing to the Founders (instead preferring that the genocide simply kills them all off) - proven that the Dominion's intial concern about the Federation being full of shady bastards who would try to kill them all was 100% correct. Therefore, the initial attack was reasonable based on a correct judgement of the hearts of men. It also shows that the Feds too, are ready, willing and able to commit what is the most heinous possible form of and utlimate overkill: genocide.
It should also be noted, that had the Dominion not made a strong show of force and attacked the Federation, then the Federation would not have heeded their demands to stay away. Opening a "discussion" would have simply resulted in the Federation continuing with their arrogant "we are the gods of the universe" attitude and saying to the Dominion that they are going to keep invading deeper near/into their space because they have a self-appointed right to. This clearly would have been an ineffective approach that is not worth using.
Reason I'm making this thread is to further make the case that the Dominion is not bad, and the Federation is not good. Or at the very least, they are both very simlarly bad and good to almost equal degrees.
Frodo Lives said:
But, what do you think they were doing by exploring the Gamma Quadrant if not seeking to make contact with the species and organisations that lived there? How else do you make contact when you have no idea who's there? You wander up and ring the bell, and what did the Dominion do? They blew up the front porch to get rid of those pesky kids at the front door. The Feds were following the most logical course of action in exploring the Gamma Quadrant, the Dominion acted irrationally to them. Then went and made the threat that they were going to come into the Alpha Quadrant and kick their asses.
And it was a deliberate act of aggression against the Federation, we never heard of the Jem Hadar bothering any Ferengi transports wandering around the Gamma Quadrant, incurring into Dominion territory, which there must have been considering they were after more business opportunities there.
They acted aggressively towards the Federation because they wanted to, not because they were encroaching on their territory. Overkill.
scottydog said:
There's no question in my mind that the Federation was the innocent victim of ruthless (and senseless) Dominion aggression. The Federation's goal was to seek out new life and befriend it, to embrace and value different forms of life. In contrast, the Dominion's goal was to destroy all solids. The Federation definitely has the moral high ground.
Not all races are interested in being the guinea pigs for the Federation's exploration fetish. But, the Federation pre-supposes that role upon all unknown races in the univese. They assume that because they like to explore everywhere, all other races should be willing to accomodate their desires. In my view this is an immoral assumption on the part of the Federation in which they are, to a certain degree, trying to assume the role of gods for themselves.
Secondly, the Federation doesn't really explore just for the sake of exploring. Ultimately, their goal is to assimilate new planets into the Federation fold. As Eddington so clearly points out. This is also evident in the very first episode, in which Picard orders Sisko that Sisko's orders are to "Make Bajor ready!" to join the Federation. Whether that's in the best interest of Bajor or if Bajor wants to or not, who cares. Having Bajor sign on the line that is dotted and thereby expand the Federation empire by joining, is the only thing that matters.
The Federation also tries to impose it's way of life on it's member planets who it is at the same time shadily trying to recruit. Like Bajor. We see the Feds assuming the god role for themselves again by saying Bajor can't join if it uses a caste system. Reasonably, Bajor using a caste system is none of the Federation's darn business. And it definitely shows that the Feds do not embrace new ways of life. Rather, they assimilate everyone into their own way of life.
As for the Dominion attacking the Federation right away: solids, and possibly some members of the Federation, have done that to the Founders for many centuries. Therefore, the Dominion had a totally moral, rational reason for reacting as they did to solids creeping up on them without permission. Even if the argument that it wasn't the Federation members specifically who attacked the Founders is used, that is rendered a moot point when the series is taken as a whole. The Federation has by it's own actions - namely, creating the genocide disease against the Founders - then refusing to allow the cure to the genocide disease to be providing to the Founders (instead preferring that the genocide simply kills them all off) - proven that the Dominion's intial concern about the Federation being full of shady bastards who would try to kill them all was 100% correct. Therefore, the initial attack was reasonable based on a correct judgement of the hearts of men. It also shows that the Feds too, are ready, willing and able to commit what is the most heinous possible form of and utlimate overkill: genocide.
It should also be noted, that had the Dominion not made a strong show of force and attacked the Federation, then the Federation would not have heeded their demands to stay away. Opening a "discussion" would have simply resulted in the Federation continuing with their arrogant "we are the gods of the universe" attitude and saying to the Dominion that they are going to keep invading deeper near/into their space because they have a self-appointed right to. This clearly would have been an ineffective approach that is not worth using.