In relation to TNG when was this class retired?
Constitution Class retirement?
- Thread starter GalaxyClass1701
- Start date
I don't think there is really solid evidence. I would guess around 50 years or so before TNG.
Or then starships are never really retired, as much as they are operated until they fall apart.
A starship never really gets outdated: even if Klingon or Romulan technology moves ahead, Starfleet can always find another adversary from the Milky Way whose tech is inferior and will stay inferior for the next century. It might thus make sense to keep operating Constitutions in certain theaters until the last one rusts out - but new ones would not be built, so the numbers would dwindle, and those numbers that did remain would stay off the cameras because nobody is interested in adventures involving vastly inferior villains!
Timo Saloniemi
A starship never really gets outdated: even if Klingon or Romulan technology moves ahead, Starfleet can always find another adversary from the Milky Way whose tech is inferior and will stay inferior for the next century. It might thus make sense to keep operating Constitutions in certain theaters until the last one rusts out - but new ones would not be built, so the numbers would dwindle, and those numbers that did remain would stay off the cameras because nobody is interested in adventures involving vastly inferior villains!
Timo Saloniemi
For all we know, there may have been a few Constitution-class ships still in service as late as TNG's third season, IMO. Just because there weren't any seen around the Enterprise-D doesn't mean that there couldn't have been some still in service elsewhere in the Federation--heck, one might even have been blasted apart at Wolf 359...
I know we don't know for sure but give it your best guess I'm trying to write a novel.
There is the burnt out secondary hull shown in The Best of Both Worlds...
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s4/4x01/bestofbothworldstwo226.jpg
Left towards the top.
We have to assume there are still some around, like that hull remnant from BOBW.
The real reason we don't see any on-screen is because they don't want to dilute the destruction of the Enterprise-Nil by showing other Constitutions getting damaged (remember, until WOK the Ent-Nil was pretty much an invincible ship).
The real reason we don't see any on-screen is because they don't want to dilute the destruction of the Enterprise-Nil by showing other Constitutions getting damaged (remember, until WOK the Ent-Nil was pretty much an invincible ship).
Originally, in the TNG episode The Battle, where Picard's old ship, the Stargazere is found, they intended it to be a Constitution class ship. There was even a line of dialogue where it was referred to as such. However, TPTB decided that only Kirk should actually be shown with such a ship, so they changed it to Constellation class, which they could easily dub over the actor's recorded lines, and have it match pretty well.
So based on that, I can imagine that the thought is Constitutions still last into the 24th Century.
So based on that, I can imagine that the thought is Constitutions still last into the 24th Century.
I agree. The idea is possible but unlikely.
It doesn't work in the real world.
The USA could have kept Essex class carriers around and some B-17s and some F-86 Saber jets and what the hell, maybe a couple battleships, too. Surely they were capable of defeating some country, somewhere.
But it doesn't work like that.
You maintain and use cost-effective and purpose-effective materiel until it's no longer viable to do so. I don't see Star Fleet running their starships into the ground, as if they were piece of siht cars we might treat similarly.
I personally just assumed they were all retired around the time of TUC. That's just my personal theory.
As far as canon goes, Picard says there's a Constitution in the fleet museum in Relics, therefore implying the class was retired prior to that episode.
As far as canon goes, Picard says there's a Constitution in the fleet museum in Relics, therefore implying the class was retired prior to that episode.
Or at least ones that didn't get a refit.
Since the Refit Constitutions are contemporaries to the Miranda and the Constellation (which we still see in use) and are only slightly behind the workhorse Excelsiors, it makes sense some would be in service still.
Certainly relegated to duties like convoy protection or anti-piracy.
antiquityscion
Commander
I have always been under the impression that the Constitution class was being replaced by the Excelsior class as they both filled the same role. So, I would think the Constitutions were phased out by the early 24th century. Since pretty much every class was seen during the dominion war on DS9, besides the constitution, I would think this supports the idea the constitution class was retired. What is odd is that the Miranda class could almost be considered a variant of, as well as a contemporary of the Constitution class, so it always confused me why the Mirandas were around, but the Constitutions were not. The only thing I can think of is that the Constitutions were retired by the time the Excelsiors were more prevalent. For example, one can assume that the enterprise-a was retired to make way for the enterprise-b.
The only explanation for Constitutions remaining in service by the TNG era (to me), would be as:
1. Cadet training vessels (as the Enterprise 1701 was in TWOK)
2. Reserve forces, much like the Air Force Reserves and Air National Guard receive older jet models, while the Active duty receive the newest equipment.
3. Kept in mothball, awaiting reactivation in case of a crisis just as the US Navy does with some of its older, yet still serviceable ships (IE borg invasion, dominion war)
The only explanation for Constitutions remaining in service by the TNG era (to me), would be as:
1. Cadet training vessels (as the Enterprise 1701 was in TWOK)
2. Reserve forces, much like the Air Force Reserves and Air National Guard receive older jet models, while the Active duty receive the newest equipment.
3. Kept in mothball, awaiting reactivation in case of a crisis just as the US Navy does with some of its older, yet still serviceable ships (IE borg invasion, dominion war)
Last edited:
Starfleet has a really weird track record with how long starships stay in service. For example, the Ambassador class is newer than the Excelsior class, but we haven't seen an Ambassador since TNG's 5th season, while we continued to see Excelsiors up to Voyager's final season.
antiquityscion
Commander
Agreed, but l I don't know that the Ambassadors replaced the Excelsiors and Constellation classes, in the same way the Excelsiors replaced the Constitutions, even though they were all classified as heavy cruisers. Maybe since the Excelsiors were still serviceable, and the Galaxies were being introduced, they stopped production of the Ambassadors to focus on the Galaxy class?
Ambassadors appeared in Data's day, redemption and Emissary, as well as the credits of DS9.
maybeor maybe they filled different rolls than the constitution class? I think they are just cruisers, not heavy cruisers like the Constitutions and Excelsior.
Keep in mind that as a cruiser ages its basically becomes downgraded to a destroyer.
To a degree, yes the real world does work that way, military ships are refitted, altered and reassigned to new roles, until they're useless and played out. Then we sell them to our allies.
Built for WWII, some stayed in service through early 1975 . Just as the USS Enterprise of the Constitution class was refitted as the Enterprise class, the Essex class USS Hancock was refitted as the one of the five ship Hancock class.
Might want to sight a different example there too, the battleship Missouri had a life span of nearly 48 years
Iraq maybe, during Operation Desert Storm, the battleship Missouri fired 28 cruise missiles into Iraqi targets, plus shore targets with her main guns..
Oh, and the USS Constitution was used on overseas missions 57 years after being launched and is still in active service after 214 years, old girl doesn't get out much anymore.
------
Similarly, the Connies and Enterprises (and other variants?) would have remained in service through certainly the early decades of the 24th century, then transferred/sold into the service of Federation member worlds home-fleets or sold to trusted Federation allies. They would be periodically refitted and upgraded, their 23rd century weapons and sensors removed and superior replacements installed.
By the time of the Dominion War, the space frame of some of the ships would be well over a century old, hardly a front line vessel, but still capable of rear area patrols and offensive missions.
The (non-canon, I know) TNG novel The Captain's Honor features the Constitution-class USS Centurion, upgraded with holodecks and other 24th century gear.
You'd expect things to last longer in the future. How many ship designs did Starfleet do through between 2151 and 2378? All that time, the Klingons were using the D7/K'tinga, and for most of it the same Bird-of-prey. Some Federation ships, like the Miranda, Constellation and Excelsior have comparable lifespans, others have lifespans that could make phones laugh.
"Azati Prime" featured 26th century cameos by the Vor'cha, the Prometheus and the Nova classes - although likely intended as generic futuristic ships (Voyager's fake Starfleet ship, the Dauntless, was among them) it's the sort of functional lifespan I'd expect from Star Trek's era and technology.
You'd expect things to last longer in the future. How many ship designs did Starfleet do through between 2151 and 2378? All that time, the Klingons were using the D7/K'tinga, and for most of it the same Bird-of-prey. Some Federation ships, like the Miranda, Constellation and Excelsior have comparable lifespans, others have lifespans that could make phones laugh.
"Azati Prime" featured 26th century cameos by the Vor'cha, the Prometheus and the Nova classes - although likely intended as generic futuristic ships (Voyager's fake Starfleet ship, the Dauntless, was among them) it's the sort of functional lifespan I'd expect from Star Trek's era and technology.
Actually, the concept was directly lifted from how the Soviet navy worked. Retirement was unheard of; rusting and sinking while serving was the preferred disposal method. Non-battleworthy designs were passed down in hierarchy, with destroyers becoming minelayers, then coastal gunboats, then transports and barracks ships, then storage hulks.
Most navies do something similar, because a ship is a hideously expensive thing, and getting rid of one is also insanely expensive. Of course, most navies readily sell their outdated ships forward for use by lesser allies against lesser enemies; yet the USSR didn't work that way, nor would Starfleet in all likelihood.
Timo Saloniemi
