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News Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey

Because of this movie cast, I keep having to deal with idiots on social media who are anti-woke and connect everything to Jews. It’s enough to make someone have a nervous breakdown. Curse the day Elon bought Twitter.
 
Time Magazine published a lengthy article about the film yesterday and it's wealth of information!

One of the biggest reveals is that Lupita Nyong'o is finally confirmed as Helen of Troy...but she's also playing Clytemnestra! Considering their brothers are Castor and Pollux, it makes sense for Helen and Clytemnestra to be twins, too, even if Greek Mythology never referred to them as such (at least to my knowledge). The article also confirms an early rumor: Of course Bill Irwin is Polyphemus. Additionally, Samantha Morton is Circe.

Getting into the meat of the article, I loved how the article goes into detail at two different points about how the poem is adapted:

He has also studied the text and made several striking adaptation choices. Argos, Odysseus’ loyal dog, has been promoted from a cameo to a bit player. Odysseus and his son Telemachus (Tom Holland)—burdened by the legend of a father he doesn’t remember—are given more time together. Circe, an archetype in Homer’s version, gets a humanizing update thanks to Samantha Morton’s unsettling yet sympathetic performance. And the reunion between Odysseus’ fellow king Menelaus (Jon Bernthal) and his wife Helen (Lupita Nyong’o)—the most beautiful woman in the world, blamed for starting the war after a Trojan prince spirited her away—has always felt too neatly resolved in the poem. Nolan complicates it. And in a twist, Nyong’o also plays Helen’s sister, Clytemnestra, whose marriage to Menelaus’ brother Agamemnon (Benny Safdie) is, to put it mildly, acrimonious.​
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That, Nolan thought, was perfect for Odysseus. The Homeric hero most of us remember from high school is the crafty guy behind the Trojan Horse. But he’s also arrogant and duplicitous. A line in Emily Wilson’s translation sums him up: “Lying Odysseus replied, ‘I will tell you the truth completely.’” For Nolan, one of the hardest things about adapting The Odyssey is that in The Iliad, Odysseus has a relatively minor role. “A lot of the characteristics of Odysseus that can be really admirable in a supporting character, like being a bit clever, being a bit slick, when your hero is like that, it doesn’t always work,” he says. “There’s a reason that in Star Wars, you’ve got Han Solo, but you’ve also got Luke Skywalker, a heroic figure that’s a little more pure and transparent. So the challenge was to be true to the complexity of Odysseus but make him relatable for the audience.”​
What compels Odysseus—and compels audiences to root for him—is his love for his wife. Penelope waits 20 years for a husband everybody else thinks is dead. She manages to repeatedly outwit the 108 suitors plotting to court her, murder her son, and usurp Odysseus’ throne. Hathaway was pleasantly surprised when she read Nolan’s script and saw that the queen doesn’t just sit around and weep.​
“There’s this impression of Penelope that she’s kind of the picture of modesty. She’s the picture of patience,” says Hathaway. “And I said, ‘Chris, if I’m not mistaken, you’ve written someone who is full of fury and you seem to be implying that she’s actually Odysseus’ equal.’” This Penelope matches her husband not just in intellect but in passion. “I found her to be this volcano of a human that was always simmering. It was really fun when she finally exploded.”​
Another part that stands out to me is how Nolan and Göransson developed the film's score to make it feel more authentic that period...complete with lyre:

In the corner of three-time Academy Award–winning composer Ludwig Göransson’s studio sits a lyre nearly the size of a grown man, one room over from a ping-pong table that, at the push of a button, disappears into the floor. For Göransson and Nolan, the ancient and the modern are not so far apart​
Nolan instructed Göransson not to use an orchestra in the score, if only to subvert expectations for a swords-and-sandals film. “It’s not like the orchestra existed back then,” says Göransson. “It was a challenge and also an opening to try to make something unique.” Instead, Göransson rented 35 bronze gongs of varying sizes, experimented, recorded them with synths, and began sending the director songs. Nolan also put rapper Travis Scott in the film as a bard. “I cast him because I wanted to nod towards the idea that this story has been handed down as oral poetry, which is analogous to rap,” says Nolan. Even the string instrument plays a surprising role. “Chris had this idea of the sound of the lyre being the pluck of Odysseus’ bow,” says Göransson.​

And, of course, Nolan addressed the concerns about the controversial depiction of weapons, armor, and boats in the film:

Nolan speaks with pride about the level of research that went into the production from all departments, especially considering our Bronze Age knowledge is based on “very fragmentary archeological records.” When the trailer dropped, classics buffs complained about Agamemnon’s armor—dark, shiny, and reminiscent of Nolan’s Batsuit. But what struck some as fantastical Nolan defends as feasible. “There are Mycenaean daggers that are blackened bronze. The theory is they probably could have blackened bronze in those days. You take bronze, you add more gold and silver to it and then use sulfur,” says Nolan. “With Agamemnon, Ellen [Mirojnick], our costume designer, is trying to communicate how elevated he is relative to everyone else. You do that through materials that would be very expensive.”​
Nolan offers equally thorough explanations for every production choice, from the boats to the weapons, all of which draw on both the Bronze Age and Homer’s era, hundreds of years later. “The oldest depictions of Homeric characters tend to be depicted in the manner of people living in Homer’s time,” he says. “So there’s a pretty strong case there for portraying things that way because that’s the way the first audience received the story.”​
I know that probably won't appease some people and that's fair. But Nolan's interpretation of that aspect of storytelling works for me.

But the most striking thing about the article is how it keeps returning to the point of how Nolan used practical effects and on location settings with no soundstages or green screens for the entire film. Damon goes as far as comparing him to David Lean (The Bridge on the River Kwai, Lawrence of Arabia, Doctor Zhivago, among others) which is high praise indeed.

Damn, I cannot wait to see this film!
 
But the most striking thing about the article is how it keeps returning to the point of how Nolan used practical effects and on location settings with no soundstages or green screens for the entire film.

I'll reserve judgment on that approach when it comes to this movie if/when I see it, but it did not serve him well on Dunkirk, IMO, which depicted the town as virtually spotless, when in reality most of it had been blown to bits, and his refusal to use any CG extras or ships (IIRC) severely weakened its authenticity.

CGI is not evil.
 
Yeah, but we did see a lot of pretty sparsely occupied beaches. More than 338,000 Allied soldiers were evacuated in a matter of days at Dunkirk. Do any of these shots look like they contain or even suggest more than a third of a million people to anyone here? Because they sure don't to me. :p


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Now, I'm not saying that every scene had to show tens of thousands of troops in most of their shots. But, let's not kid ourselves: Nolan's refusal to use any overt CGI carried a visual and historical cost.
 
Musk's excoriation of Nolan drips with insecurity in his own cultural understanding and education.

I'll do him the courtesy of assuming he read Homer in school. But if he wants to pick literalistic fanboy fights online about right interpretations and canonicity, he needs to pick a different hill than the Odyssey to die on.
 
Musk's error seems to be in underestimating the number of possible ways that the diversity requirements for the Oscars can be met.

The choices made for this film may not have been about those requirements. They may have been made for other reasons.
 
So...no one else read the Time article or even the snippets I posted?
I haven't had a chance to read the whole article yet, just the snippets that you posted. I certainly appreciate and respect Christopher Nolan's approach to filmmaking, but I do agree with those who say that CGI is not evil. It's just another tool in the toolbox. I don't think I was aware that Ludwig Goransson was scoring this movie. That means he's scoring fully half of the movies I plan on seeing for the rest of the year.:lol:
 
I read them.

Yeah, but we did see a lot of pretty sparsely occupied beaches. More than 338,000 Allied soldiers were evacuated in a matter of days at Dunkirk. Do any of these shots look like they contain or even suggest more than a third of a million people to anyone here? Because they sure don't to me. :p


16307-10.jpg


16307-15.jpg


16307-26.jpg


Now, I'm not saying that every scene had to show tens of thousands of troops in most of their shots. But, let's not kid ourselves: Nolan's refusal to use any overt CGI carried a visual and historical cost.
No.
 
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So...no one else read the Time article or even the snippets I posted?

Are you asking for someone to address the Lupita Nyong’o-as-Helen thing? Okay.

Am I skeptical that ancient Greeks would come to a consensus that any very dark-skinned person - or, in this case, a person born to two Kenyans, a country thousands of miles from Greece - would be considered the world's most beautiful man or woman? Yeah.

Does said casting offend or annoy me? No.

Does said casting necessarily make me more interested in the movie than if Nolan had picked someone who looked more like these previous Hollywood Helens?

ht.jpg


helen-of-troy-03.jpg

(2003 Helen of Troy miniseries)

... Also no.


Do I suspect Nolan made this casting in part to provoke trolls, which would inspire others to condemn said trollery, which would then lead to major outlets publishing the usual diversity-minded think pieces, thus gaining his movie far more free publicity and liberal-minded goodwill than if he'd hired someone who looked more like the above actors?

... Maybe.
 
I don't think I was aware that Ludwig Goransson was scoring this movie. That means he's scoring fully half of the movies I plan on seeing for the rest of the year.:lol:
He's a busy man indeed! Which I'm grateful for because I've loved every single score he has produced so far.

Are you asking for someone to address the Lupita Nyong’o-as-Helen thing? Okay.
I mean, there's more to that article (and my post) to that but okay.

Am I skeptical that ancient Greeks would come to a consensus that any very dark-skinned person - or, in this case, a person born to two Kenyans, a country thousands of miles from Greece - would be considered the world's most beautiful man or woman? Yeah.
I don't have an issue with it because Greeks aren't then or now blond bombshell either. I absolutely believe Nyong'o's beauty would launch a thousand ships and that's good enough for me. I also refer you to the part of the article where Nolan addresses historical accuracy and apply that thinking to this point.

As for CGI, obviously Nolan isn't against it. Unless you think there's a massive naturally-occurring whirlpool on this planet. Or Cyclops or other monsters exist. And so on.

To address your Dunkirk slagging, we saw large portions of troops. We didn't need to see as many as actually existed to get across the point of the story he wanted to tell and he, in my opinion, told that story very well.

I'm not saying CGI is evil and nor do I think Nolan thinks that. I agree it's a useful tool and I imagine he thinks so when it's necessary. But I do not think Dunkirk "needed" CGI-generated troop masses for the film to work and clearly Nolan didn't either.
 
Are you asking for someone to address the Lupita Nyong’o-as-Helen thing? Okay.

Am I skeptical that ancient Greeks would come to a consensus that any very dark-skinned person - or, in this case, a person born to two Kenyans, a country thousands of miles from Greece - would be considered the world's most beautiful man or woman? Yeah.

Does said casting offend or annoy me? No.

Does said casting necessarily make me more interested in the movie than if Nolan had picked someone who looked more like these previous Hollywood Helens?

ht.jpg


helen-of-troy-03.jpg

(2003 Helen of Troy miniseries)

... Also no.


Do I suspect Nolan made this casting in part to provoke trolls, which would inspire others to condemn said trollery, which would then lead to major outlets publishing the usual diversity-minded think pieces, thus gaining his movie far more free publicity and liberal-minded goodwill than if he'd hired someone who looked more like the above actors?

... Maybe.
Or you know, maybe he just wanted to work with Lupita Nyong'o and thought she was a good fit for his version of Helen.
 
Are you asking for someone to address the Lupita Nyong’o-as-Helen thing? Okay.

Am I skeptical that ancient Greeks would come to a consensus that any very dark-skinned person - or, in this case, a person born to two Kenyans, a country thousands of miles from Greece - would be considered the world's most beautiful man or woman? Yeah.

Does said casting offend or annoy me? No.

Does said casting necessarily make me more interested in the movie than if Nolan had picked someone who looked more like these previous Hollywood Helens?

ht.jpg


helen-of-troy-03.jpg

(2003 Helen of Troy miniseries)

... Also no.


Do I suspect Nolan made this casting in part to provoke trolls, which would inspire others to condemn said trollery, which would then lead to major outlets publishing the usual diversity-minded think pieces, thus gaining his movie far more free publicity and liberal-minded goodwill than if he'd hired someone who looked more like the above actors?

... Maybe.

None of those women look especially Greek to me. I'm not sure why Nolan should cast a mythical 2000 year old woman (who was the daughter of the equally mythical Zeus let's not forget) based on how Hollywood has cast her before?
 
I personally feel that the Helen character would likely have been served better by casting someone of a more Mediterranean variety. But what to I know?

As for the historical accuracy of the armor and vessels used, Hollywood frequently seems to sacrifice accuracy for "kewl factor". In the 1981 film Excalibur, for example, Gabriel Byrne's Uther Pendragon, Morgana and a number of other characters wore full plate armor. Uther was said to have lived around the 5th or 6th century, but plate armor didn't come into use by soldiers and knights until around 13th to 14th century. It's farby* and suspension of disbelief is necessary if one happens to know a little about history when watching these things.

* "Farb" (noun) and "farby" (adjective) is a (bit of a pejorative) term used in historical reenacting/living history circles towards newer members of units who have inappropriately modern-looking uniforms and/or equipment. This usually happens when it's hard to find something that looks good/right or is too expensive. The term "farb" comes from the longer sentence, "Far be it for me to tell you, son, that what you're wearing is NOT period-correct." God help them if they whip out a cell phone to take pictures in the middle of a tactical demonstration with spectators. :ouch:
 
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