Chick-Fil-A Supported AFA Director Promotes Child Kidnapping

[nightwind1]

So, remember how some people considered it "Free Speech" that Chick-Fil-A made extensive financial donations to the (mis-named, IMHO) "American Family Association?

Well, spokesman and director of issues analysis for the AFA thinks we need an "Underground Railroad" to kidnap children from gay couples.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/...-railroad-to-kidnap-children-of-lgbt-parents/

The director of issues analysis of a conservative fundamentalist Christian organization is backing the idea of an “Underground Railroad” to kidnap children from same sex couples.
In tweets posted on Tuesday night, the American Family Associations’s Bryan Fischer cited the need for an “Underground Railroad” in defense of a Mennonite minister who helped an “ex-gay” woman flee to Nicaragua after a court ordered that her former lesbian partner was allowed to visit their 10-year-old daughter.
Jury selection began on Tuesday for the trial of Kenneth Miller, who was charged with aiding and abetting the kidnapping of the daughter.
“Head of Underground Railroad to deliver innocent children from same-sex households goes on trial,” Fischer wrote in the first tweet.
“Why we need an Underground Railroad to deliver innocent children from same-sex households,” he added several minutes later, with a link to a column by a conservative California man who claims that his mother’s same sex relationship is responsible for all of problems in life.
“Quite simply, growing up with gay parents was very difficult, and not because of prejudice from neighbors,” Robert Lopez explained in his column. “I have no mental health disorders or biological conditions. I just grew up in a house so unusual that I was destined to exist as a social outcast.”
Think Progress’ Zack Ford pointed out that Fischer’s “Underground Railroad” idea was “incredibly dangerous rhetoric that has the potential to do great harm.”
“How much destruction could self-declared ‘Harriet Tubmans’ do to same-sex families, motivated by Fischer’s claims?” Ford wrote. “More than ever, the ‘culture war’ is a direct attack on the lives of LGBT and their families.”

and


http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/...ourt-custody-rulings-are-judicial-kidnapping/

American Family Association spokesman Bryan Fischer took to Twitter again today to double down on his claims that an “underground railroad” is necessary to kidnap children away from same-sex parents. Referring again to the case of Lisa Miller, who kidnapped her daughter away to Nicaragua to prevent her former same-sex partner from gaining custody, Fischer argued that court rulings that recognize same-sex unions constitute “judicial kidnapping”:

No kidnapping involved in Lisa Miller case. She left the US to keep her natural, biological daughter FROM BEING KIDNAPPPED. In Lisa Miller case, I’m advocating AGAINST JUDICIAL KIDNAPPING, in favor of keeping daughter with her own mother. In Lisa Miller case, lesbian who wanted sole custody of the daughter had NO legal or biological relationship to the girl. If any kidnapping involved in Lisa Miller case, it’s judges stealing a child from her mother and giving her to a stranger.
​

First of all — and unsurprisingly — Fischer has the facts wrong. While it’s true that Miller was her daughter’s biological mother, her former partner, Janet Jenkins, was also legally her mother. Isabella grew up calling Jenkins “Mama” and Miller “Mommy.” Jenkins and Miller had their civil union dissolved in 2004, and Vermont’s Family Court granted Jenkins visitation rights. Miller moved to Virginia, which did not recognize Vermont’s civil unions, and used the court to block Jenkins from visiting for two years. Ultimately, the Virginia Supreme Court ruled that Vermont still had jurisdiction, reinstating visitation rights for Jenkins. When Miller again started blocking Jenkins’ visits, a Vermont judge held her in contempt, prompting her to flee with Isabella to Central America, apparently through a covert network of Mennonites. ”Mama” was hardly a “stranger” in the eyes of the law, despite Miller’s best attempts to alienate Isabella from her.
Worse than simply being wrong on the facts, Fischer is arguing for complete anarchy. Judges granting custody to legally recognized guardians is the courts acting in the best interest of children. To call that “judicial kidnapping” is to suggest that the entire legal system be disregarded when it recognizes same-sex relationships. Fischer is essentially encouraging conservative Christians to become anti-gay vigilantes, kidnapping the children of same-sex couples to enforce their own perverted sense of justice outside the legal system.
Despite how extreme Fischer’s positions are, there is actually precedent for this particular mindset. The Manhattan Declaration, drafted in 2009 by former National Organization for Marriage chairman Robert George and the late prison evangelist Chuck Colson, encourages Christians to violate the law if that’s what it takes to uphold their anti-gay (or anti-choice) values. Fischer is apparently ready to follow through on that “call of Christian conscience.”

So, "Free Speech", my 310-pound ass. This is one of the groups that Chick-Fil-A's so-called "charity" donates tens of thousands of dollars to.


So, those of you supporting Chick-Fil-A, just know what the hell your money is supporting. It's supporting people who advocate kidnapping children from their rightful parents.


Keep enjoying those chicken sandwiches and waffle fries.

 

[sojourner]

Or don't support them and continue to enjoy those chicken sandwiches:
http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/07/the-food-lab-how-to-make-a-chick-fil-a-sandwich-at-home.html

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

The classic Chick-Fil-A sandwich is a thing of simple beauty. A juicy, salty, crisply fried chicken breast. A soft, sweet, buttered and toasted bun. Two dill pickle chips. That's all there is to it.

Yeah. It's boring. I don't get it.

Ah, but anyway, back on topic. Shame on them. I haven't eaten at that restaurant since this fiasco began, and I don't think I ever will again. Of course, my voting-with-my-wallet movement isn't going to go very far, as I only ate there once every several months to begin with. I just find their food... again, boring.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

Luckily, when I get hungry for chicken I have a much better alternative.


And now I'm hungry for chicken tenders again.

 

[Saito S]

Wow. That's frankly horrifying.

Putting aside that it was never really about free speech in the first place, except in the minds of those defending CFA, it surely isn't about free speech NOW.

This Fischer guy is a serious contender for Most Terrible Person in the Known Universe.

 

[RJDiogenes]

The fact that she was able to use the Virginia courts, who "didn't recognize" Vermont civil unions, demonstrates the need for a Supreme Court judgment, like the one for "interracial" marriage back in the 60s.

 

[IndyJones]

This Fischer guy is a serious contender for Most Terrible Person in the Known Universe.

A sentiment that gay people have felt for a long time.

... several minutes later, with a link to a column by a conservative California man who claims that his mother’s same sex relationship is responsible for all of problems in life.
“Quite simply, growing up with gay parents was very difficult, and not because of prejudice from neighbors,” Robert Lopez explained in his column. “I have no mental health disorders or biological conditions. I just grew up in a house so unusual that I was destined to exist as a social outcast.”

Thus guy's story is pretty sad.

But doesn't it seem like he might be on the spectrum? What stood out to me most is how he stresses that he's really smart but has always had trouble understanding simple social cues. He blames the lack of a father figure for not understanding how men are supposed to act. He didn't have uncles, male teachers, classmates, a television? He never saw men at all?

And he never makes it quite clear how long he lived with the mom and her partner, but states he was his mother's last child, and the only one who grew up without their father around, then the mom was dating the other woman for awhile, and finally the woman moved in with them, all before the mother passed away at 53.

And to top it all off, he mentions he was contacted by Mark Regnerus following the backlash to Regnerus's study of gay and lesbian parenting that has been panned not just by gay activists, but by just about every non-wacko anti-gay "scientist" out there. When the G-Man posted a thread about it even he was apparently so embarrassed to be associated with it that he never returned after the OP.

But, in the end, this man's story boils down to: "My mom was a lesbian and I've had a rough life ---> Therefore I've had a rough life because my mom was a lesbian". The science doesn't back that up. And if Mark Regnerus had done legitimate rather than agenda driven research on the subject, he wouldn't have to trawl the internet for blog posts that support his bigoted assertions.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

The fact that she was able to use the Virginia courts, who "didn't recognize" Vermont civil unions, demonstrates the need for a Supreme Court judgment, like the one for "interracial" marriage back in the 60s.

Yeah. And it has to be a Court ruling. Even if DOMA were repealed, Virginia still wouldn't recognize gay marriage.

 

[1001001]

Stealing children from their parents because they're gay?

That is seriously fudged up.

 

[R. Star]

Does anyone else find it even slightly silly all the attention chicken sandwiches are getting these days?

 

[RandyS]

Does anyone else find it even slightly silly all the attention chicken sandwiches are getting these days?

The whole damned issue has become pathetic.

 

[gturner]

The New York Times probably did the most work on the story.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/u...bduction-and-questions.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

The biological mother had been granted custody by Vermont, having seperated when the daughter was only 17-months old. She opposed and stymmied her ex-partner's visitations for years, which pissed off a Vermont judge, so he was going to grant custody to the ex-partner in Vermont who had already married another woman. So the mother and daughter fled.

If the US Marshalls find the now-fully Mennonite daughter and make her live with the unrelated lesbian couple in Vermont, were she hasn't lived since she was a year and a half old, she'll spend her days telling them they'll burn in hell for rejecting God's commandments and probably run away again.

Trying to get Amish-Mennonites on board with gay marriage is a pointless waste of time. They're still not comfortable with steam engines.

 

[Peacemaker]

So, all those Amish gay men I know (and,yes,I do know them) were lost causes too? So, yet another gturner nonsequitur. Go figure.

Personally, I see this as more emblematic of a larger issue: the refusal of these Anabaptists to integrate into society. This, and their theology, sets them apart from other Protestants. That's what enables them to think they can defy the laws of the land and overlook Romans 13. Kidnapping, in the Old Testament itself, by the way, was also a capital offense, just like murder. So, on the one hand, they wish to believe the Bible with respect to homosexuality, and on the other ignore it with respect to kidnapping and civil law.

 

[SmoothieX]

Does anyone else find it even slightly silly all the attention chicken sandwiches are getting these days?

Yeah, well beyond silly.

Eat what makes you happy. I'm sure if I wanted I could pretend to be outraged over any fast food chain.

 

[IndyJones]

Does anyone else find it even slightly silly all the attention chicken sandwiches are getting these days?

Yeah, well beyond silly.

What's the matter, afraid you'll slip up again?

 

[Peacemaker]

I think it's also fair to point out that Fischer himself was sexually abused as a child. It's pretty obvious that he has a lot of unresolved issues with that. He strikes me as a classic example of the helper-abuser.

I did my homework on sexual abuse a few years ago - my ex was raped repeatedly by his uncle for 4 years during his adolescence. It left many scars, as one might imagine.

Men who are abused as boys generally turn into helping personalities when they grow up. Turning into an abuser more often than not is a popular myth. However, some do go on to become abusers themselves.

It seems to me that in Fischer's case, he's turned into a helper-abuser. On the one hand, he's a true helper, in his own eyes. He's protecting the innocent and helpless children, just like was once innocent and helpless. On the other hand, he's also the true abuser. Unable to come to terms with his own abuse, and probably both unable and unwilling to understand or at least forgive or otherwise seek justice against his own abuser, he's taking out all of that anger on homosexuals, gay men in particular if you go through most of his statements. For him it almost always comes down to "we have to do this to protect the children." That's a fairly common thread to his statements. It doesn't matter how "out there" his outrageous statements get. For him, this is what it's about. This is the real product of childhood sexual abuse. This is also the product of being part of a generation where it wasn't talked about, and it was doubly shameful because it was male-on-male. This is what happens when anger rules the day in the mind. Yes, his words should be reviled. However, there's also a sense in which he should be pitied. He needs to come to terms with that little boy he once was and move on - abusing gays is not the way to do it. He's become the mirror-image of his own abuser, just on a larger scale.

 

[drmidnite66]

Using the term "Underground Railroad" is very demeaning to Harriet Tubman and all of the others that risked their lives to do what they could to stop one of society's gravest ills...

Oh, for those who just can't live without Chick-ful-A - try the Southern Style Crispy Chicken sandwich at McDonalds. It's a reasonable facsimile right down to the two pickles...

 

[Saito S]

Does anyone else find it even slightly silly all the attention chicken sandwiches are getting these days?

The whole damned issue has become pathetic.

You guys are aware that the real, core issue behind all this never actually WAS "chicken sandwiches" in reality... aren't you?

Yeah, well beyond silly.

Eat what makes you happy. I'm sure if I wanted I could pretend to be outraged over any fast food chain.

Congratulations?

"Pretend outrage" has about as much to do with this as... free speech.

 

[RandyS]

Does anyone else find it even slightly silly all the attention chicken sandwiches are getting these days?

The whole damned issue has become pathetic.

You guys are aware that the real, core issue behind all this never actually WAS "chicken sandwiches" in reality... aren't you?

I do indeed. But I also still believe that the hate and intolerance your side has shown over this issue has gotten out of control.

Use me as an example. I actually agree with the pro gay marriage side, but at the same time, I still enjoy Chick a Fill, and will continue to eat there. Despite this, your side thinks I'm a bigot.

Whatever.

But, regardless of that that, both sides spewed entirely too much hate, and the whole "discussion" degenerated into idiocy.

 

[RandyS]

Does anyone else find it even slightly silly all the attention chicken sandwiches are getting these days?

The whole damned issue has become pathetic.

You guys are aware that the real, core issue behind all this never actually WAS "chicken sandwiches" in reality... aren't you?

I am indeed. But I also still believe that the hate and intolerance your side has shown over this issue has gotten out of control.

Use me as an example. I actually agree with the pro gay marriage side, but at the same time, I still enjoy Chick a Fill, and will continue to eat there. Despite this, your side thinks I'm a bigot.

Whatever.

I will say this clearly one final time. Pay attention this time. Eating at Chick a Fil DOES NOT automatically mean that a person is a bigot or anti gay, or whatever. It means they like a chicken sandwich.

Nothing else.

I can't make it any clearer than that.

But, regardless of that that, both sides spewed entirely too much hate, and the whole "discussion" degenerated into idiocy.