Chain of Command revisited

[Captain Dax]

watched Chain of Command again- everyone raves about Picard and Madred but no one really talks about how great the stuff on Enterprise with Jellico is. It’s astounding how insubordinate and unprofessional the senior officers become (Except Data, who gets a shiny red uniform)


I just fired a person for the very first time last week. Because I had given them a task and not only did they not complete it, I didn’t even know they didn’t complete it until I pried. Same with changing the watch rotation. Will Riker’s a twenty year veteran at this point. Follow your orders, Bill, what are you thinking? Then Geordi starts whining he doesn’t have enough time to complete the refit to the weapons, and begs Riker to go tell Dad. And Beverly’s snarky “Prepare sickbay for the casualties you’re about to send me,” COME ON.


Then when negotiating with the Cardassians, Riker plays right into their hands, admitting the Celtris operation was sanctioned by the Federation. If there’s anyone’s grey slimy hands you Do Not play into it’s those guys. This whole escapade showed that the Enterprise crew really might be better at having dance recitals, Broadway shows and being a bunch of nerds that Jellico should have shoved into their lockers.

 

[valkyrie013]

Jellico was a hard ass? And?? do your job to the best of your ability. If there are any Actual problems then bring them up. "were not used to this" well buck up..

 

[Michael]

… no one really talks about how great the stuff on Enterprise with Jellico is.

“No-one”? Jellico is regularly named as a fan favorite captain on here. Hell, there’s even a meme centering on the character.

I like the storyline and the character alright, although I wouldn’t really want a character like that as a regular captain, let alone a supervisor in a real life working environment. He’s the perfect example of how not to come into a well-practised team, trying to change everything about how the team is doing their job.

 

[Paul Weaver]

no one really talks about how great the stuff on Enterprise with Jellico is.

Well that's a new take...

 

[Paul Weaver]

Jellico gets on board and can't wait to go hide in his quarters

JELLICO: It caught me by surprise too. I must admit, I miss the Cairo already. But a Galaxy class ship, that's something special. I can understand why you turned down a ship of your own to remain aboard.
RIKER: Yes, sir.
JELLICO: How many duty watches does the crew stand?
RIKER: We've a standard three shift rotation.
JELLICO: I'd like to change that to four starting tonight. I'd also like to examine the duty roster and the crew evaluations as soon as possible. I want readiness reports from each department head by fourteen hundred hours, and a meeting of the senior staff at fifteen hundred. Do you prefer Will or William?
RIKER: Er, Will, sir.
(Jellico steps into a turbolift)
JELLICO: Where are my quarters, Will?
RIKER: We have you assigned to cabin seven thirty five. Deck s..
JELLICO: Deck seven. I'll see you at thirteen hundred hours.

The majority of Jellico's time was
* Reviewing pictures from his kids
* Redecorating his office

Compare to Kurn's arrival

CREWWOMAN: Commander Kurn is ready for transport, Captain.
PICARD: Energise.
(a tall Klingon arrives, disrupter pistol hanging from his belt)
PICARD: Welcome aboard the Enterprise, Commander. I'm Captain Picard. This is Commander William Riker. He will be yielding the first officer's position to you during your tour.
KURN: You are relieved. May I take my station, Captain?
RIKER: I thought that I might show you your quarters first.
KURN: I am ready for duty, sir. I ask that I be allowed to take my station.
PICARD: Very well. If you will accompany us to the Bridge.

(quotes from chakoteya.net as always)

 

[Forbin]

Ya know, it never occurred to me until now that the last boss I had for the 5 years before I retired was a lot like Jellico. Even looked like him. No wonder I hated the MF.

 

[evilchumlee]

but no one really talks about how great the stuff on Enterprise with Jellico is. It’s astounding how insubordinate and unprofessional the senior officers become (Except Data, who gets a shiny red uniform)

It gets talked about quite a bit.

I've alot of talk like this, about how "good" Jellico was.

He was not. The fact that the Enterprise crew, who were are generally led to believe are the best of the best that the Federation had to offer, rejected Jellico and had a hard time working under him. I can't find any scenario where that is the mark of a good leader.

If you can't inspire your crew, gain their trust, and accept that you are competent and know what you are doing... you're a bad leader. Jellico may have had the right attitude when it came to the Cardassians, and was a subject matter expert, but he as an abject failure when it came to leadership.

Jellico put the mission at risk due to his "king of the castle" attitude. Sure, the crew was insubordinate... I would be to in that situation. That a was a Jellico problem, not a crew problem.

 

[somebuddyX]

Happy Captain Jellico Day!

 

[Paul Weaver]

He was not. The fact that the Enterprise crew, who were are generally led to believe are the best of the best that the Federation had to offer, rejected Jellico and had a hard time working under him. I can't find any scenario where that is the mark of a good leader.

Jellico apologists seem to forget this is the crew that survived the Borg (Q-Who), defeated the Borg (BOBW), stopped Romulan meddling in the Klingon civil war (Redemption) and stopped a Romulan invasion of Vulcan (Unification). Jelllico operated as a moon shuttle conductor on a 100 year old ship.

The fact they didn't give Riker command when Picard went off on holiday is terrible and shows the poor judgement of starfleet command. One time Riker had command he and his crew literally single handedly saved the Alpha quadrant, he also dealt with Picard being replaced in Lonely Among Us and Allegiance.

If war was that inevitable why didn't they leave the Saucer section behind? According to Worf, "When relieved of its bulk, the Enterprise becomes an exceptional weapon".

Why did Troi talk to Jellico in his quarters while he was looking at his sons drawings?

Why did Jellico pull staff off essential security training to remove some fish from an office?

Why did Jellico not find the time to brief his XO on the larger picture in case (as quite possible in battle) the captain was taken out?

 

[fireproof78]

Well, I think Starfleet Command's judgement should be questioned for sending Picard on a commando mission.

Jellico is a secondary concern.

 

[Mage]

Both sides of the spectrum are played to absurdity in this episode.
Jellico's insisting on big changes just like that is bad leadership. Let the crew adjust to your style and begin with small stuff as a settling in period. Get to know them, let them get to know you.
The other side is the almost out of the gate resistance from the E-D crew to Jellico. They are used to following a chain of command and the childish reactions are just nonsense.

And of course it's a tv show so we need the drama, I get that. Still makes no sense. If Jellico wanted to do this the right way, he would take Riker, sit down and start planning out the changes he wants to do over the following weeks and ask Riker for his help in making it a smooth transition.

And please..... enough of the 'it's a military they need to follow orders like soldiers'. They have a chain of command, yes. But Starfleet is a institute unlike anything we know. Real life military rules don't apply. The made up in universe ones do.

 

[at Quark's]

And of course it's a tv show so we need the drama, I get that. Still makes no sense. If Jellico wanted to do this the right way, he would take Riker, sit down and start planning out the changes he wants to do over the following weeks and ask Riker for his help in making it a smooth transition.

The excuse given in the episode is that there's no time for that, which might very well be true, given the possibility of a clash with the Cardassians in short order.

But in that case, I feel Jellico probably should have refrained from implementing 'disturbing' changes at all until the crisis was dealt with.

 

[Mage]

The excuse given in the episode is that there's no time for that, which might very well be true, given the possibility of a clash with the Cardassians in short order.

But in that case, I feel Jellico probably should have refrained from implementing 'disturbing' changes at all until the crisis was dealt with.

Also a very good point. Any good leader would know that great upsetting the established order and create stress DURING a time of stress is bad leadership.

 

[Oddish]

Jellico did some things right, and some things wrong.

Right:
Getting up and running on the Enterprise design beforehand.
Getting Troi to dress like an officer.
Aiding Picard in his mission as best he could.
Not admitting the truth about Picard (it wasn't his call anyway; it was Necheyev's).
Demonstrating a complete LACK of anti-android prejudice.
Chasing away a Cardassian fleet without firing a shot, and getting Picard back.
At least trying to reach out to Geordi and Riker, even though he was bad at it.

Wrong:
Trying to go to a four-shift rotation on the eve of battle.
Not listening to Riker or the department heads when they said that was a problem.
Overworking his engineers. Geordi was complaining, and he does not do so lightly.
Not letting Riker at least plan a rescue mission.
Not letting his counselor and first officer do their ing jobs.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Wrong:

And the fish.

Overworking his engineers. Geordi was complaining, and he does not do so lightly.

I think "make sure your warriors are at the point of exhaustion the night before battle" is right out of Sun Tsu

 

[Jedman67]

The entire Jellico episode was terrible because of the childish drama the writers just had to put there to show how different he was from Picard.

 

[Oddish]

I think "make sure your warriors are at the point of exhaustion the night before battle" is right out of Sun Tsu

And I doubt Master Tzu would have thought much of rearranging your units so the soldiers aren't used to fighting together, right on the eve of battle.

 

[Trekgeekscott]

Good breakdown of the goods and bads of Edward Jellico. Did he do anything as Admiral on Prodigy that makes the list?

 

[Trekgeekscott]

I have something that has been eating at me for ages.
Season two. Measure of a Man. Probably the best episode in the first two seasons.

But I have a real problem with the legality of calling Data the Property of Starfleet.

Reasons

1. he wasn't created by starfleet. but by a private citizen that preferred not being involved in Federation society by picking a remote colony to work at.

2. he enlisted and was accepted to Starfleet academy, took classes, graduated served in the fleet for decades.

3. the guy that wanted to call him property and wanted him to be forced to follow orders, OPPOSED HIS ADMISSION INTO STARFLEET ACADEMY.

4. I am only guessing here but the materials used to create Data were NOT provided by Starfleet.

I'm sure I can think of dozens of other reasons calling Data "property" is preposterous.

What possible legal precedent could they be using to justify ruling Data property?

 

[Quantum21]

watched Chain of Command again- everyone raves about Picard and Madred but no one really talks about how great the stuff on Enterprise with Jellico is. It’s astounding how insubordinate and unprofessional the senior officers become (Except Data, who gets a shiny red uniform)


I just fired a person for the very first time last week. Because I had given them a task and not only did they not complete it, I didn’t even know they didn’t complete it until I pried. Same with changing the watch rotation. Will Riker’s a twenty year veteran at this point. Follow your orders, Bill, what are you thinking? Then Geordi starts whining he doesn’t have enough time to complete the refit to the weapons, and begs Riker to go tell Dad. And Beverly’s snarky “Prepare sickbay for the casualties you’re about to send me,” COME ON.


Then when negotiating with the Cardassians, Riker plays right into their hands, admitting the Celtris operation was sanctioned by the Federation. If there’s anyone’s grey slimy hands you Do Not play into it’s those guys. This whole escapade showed that the Enterprise crew really might be better at having dance recitals, Broadway shows and being a bunch of nerds that Jellico should have shoved into their lockers.

I dislike Jellico. The Enterprise crew worked just fine before Jellico and after.