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Carpenter Street

Mott the barber

Commodore
Commodore
I had a chance to see this ep. last night on HDNet. I watched ENT. through about the first 3 and a quarter seasons and then lost track of it. I gotta say, I thought this was a great episode. The guest spot was well acted, and the story was like a mini-movie that kept my attention the entire time. Makes me wanna see the rest of the episodes I missed in the last few years of the show.

Btw, the drive-thru scene was priceless. :D


Any thoughts on the ep?
 
Ah yes, the adventures of Super!Archer and Sidekick!Polly...

3x11 – “Carpenter Street”
oh goody, another time travel episode…

Let’s see, Earth is put in danger of destruction through an act of time travel, so our crew is made to travel back to the year the episode was originally filmed/aired in to prevent said destruction, with the help/interference of people from the distant future. Sound familiar? It is essentially the description for both Carpenter Street, and VOY’s Future’s End, which just happens to have been co-written by Brannon Braga. Only the players are different in this episode, as we are once again made to endure the infamous Temporal Cold war that is quite artificially injected into the Xindi arc.

Seems that the Xindi Reptilians decided to go ahead with their plans for a bio-weapon to use against humanity, only some far-flung moon or planet wasn’t a good enough hiding place, so they decided to go to 2003, Detroit, Michigan, at a time when fear is in the air due to the terrorist threat in their country of choice. And just how did these strange aliens not only go unnoticed in an abandoned factory even though they have power and have installed a security system from that era? How’d they get all of the needed currency? Why Earth’s past? Why not some other uninhabited place where they might have better gone unnoticed to even Daniels and his people?

Speaking of, why didn’t Daniels and his people take care of this problem, not to mention the main Xindi problem all on their own? This excuse of following the “temporal accords” requiring non-interference doesn’t fly, just for the fact that even contacting Archer and co., let alone actually giving them equipment and pushing them through time to do their bidding for them is interfering with the timeline every bit as much as if they’d just discretely do the work themselves using technology that is undoubtedly far more advanced than anything Archer and T’Pol are able to carry on their persons.

Actually I’m more than a little fed up with Daniels continually showing up with no answers (likely because no one has put any real thought into coming up with those answers). I was already fed up the first time Archer burst in on T’Pol during the middle of the night, so seeing it again didn’t make me a happy camper. Scully T’Pol had also worn thin some time ago, so having her remain skeptical despite finally having experienced time travel herself was just that much mroe irritating.

Heh, I had to laugh at not only Archer’s choice of vehicle, which was hardly inconspicuous, but that he also somehow knew how to drive it, right down to all the rules of the road so as not to draw the attention of law enforcement in that stolen Dodge Ram. :lol:

T’Pol gets to use the Vulcan nerve pinch again on that sniveling little man that played the insane sniveling little hologram on an early VOY episode (can’t think of the title). Unfortunately the same Angry!Archer! that threw that Osari into the airlock makes another appearance, this time by not only screaming at the Xindi collaborator, but taking at least one solid swing at him, after untying him first, because otherwise it wouldn’t make Archer manly enough. :rolleyes: But what really gets me is that T’Pol plays along. :mad:

T’Pol also once again went on and on about how bad humanity was, at least in this era. :rolleyes: I guess it’s in Star Trek tradition to go on about how bad we are in our modern times….

Anyway, later on I kind of liked T’Pol’s reaction to Archer and the sniveling little collaborator ordering food from that fast food joint and then started eating it. She was pretty disgusted when he accidentally spilled some meat on her, but that revulsion was lost by her touching her food in contradiction to the Vulcan taboo, once again….

Everything after that was fairly predictable; with Archer going in guns blazing while T’Pol has to wait outside to get only one of the two Xindi when Archer fails to despite an advantage of hiding behind bright lights and having the advantage of elevation and surprise. Am I to understand that the same man who fraks up despite those advantages and having plenty of time to aim yet misses that first shot is later to be made into some kind of freaking marksman, even better than trained professionals who have been firing weapons for a living? :wtf: Unfortunately there is a complication with the little sniveler so sidekick Polly can’t get both of the escaping Xindi, and instead they all end up on the roof of some building, where Sidekick Polly has to lay down cover fire while Super!Archer! flies from one building to the next to save the day, but not after the usual last ditch effort by the bad guy to make our hero’s victory bittersweet. :rolleyes:

Four words: not impressed, goose egg.
 
It was 2004 actually. :p

For what it's worth I really liked it and the entire third season as a while.
 
I didn't care for the episode, but then I don't like Daniels at all and I'm pretty suspicious of time-travel plots as well. Also episodes that are shot completely without stage lights annoy me, so this was kind of a foredoomed effort for my tastes.

Ah, here we are -- I knew it was in the archives somewhere. My description of it for the old Showdown threads:

In ``Carpenter Street'' Archer finally starts figuring out Daniels's scam, so Daniels cooks up a frantic nonsense makework project by declaring that at that moment 150 years ago Loomis, the stupidest medical technician in history, is turning Conan O'Brien fans over to Xindi Reptilians so they can whip up a bio-weapon. Before T'Pol can finish listing all the way Daniels's excuses for uselessness in the Xindi Menace and his deadline for them in the past don't make sense Daniels whisks her and Archer off to ``Detroit'', where they eventually steal a car, rob an ATM, feign being officers of some kind, and keep telling themselves this is for the good of humanity. After stopping for fast food, Archer has Loomis turn him over to the Reptilians, as Archer is sure whatever the solution is will involve him being beaten up. Archer tags bio-weapon equipment with Khyben bracelets while T'Pol spits on Loomis, who outdoes even his stupidity by warning the Reptilians and letting them escape with the bio-weapon. Then it's a race across the backstage lots with daring escapes for the episode trailer breaking out all over the place. Finally Archer and T'Pol are dropped back on the Enterprise with a couple Xindi ... prisoners or corpses, and the bio-weapon vanquished. Loomis, rambling about being on Star Trek, is taken into custody.

Not entirely fair, I think, but it does capture what lingers in my memory about the episode, at least.
 
Mott the barber said:
I had a chance to see this ep. last night on HDNet. I watched ENT. through about the first 3 and a quarter seasons and then lost track of it. I gotta say, I thought this was a great episode. The guest spot was well acted, and the story was like a mini-movie that kept my attention the entire time. Makes me wanna see the rest of the episodes I missed in the last few years of the show.

Btw, the drive-thru scene was priceless. :D


Any thoughts on the ep?
It was a guilty season 3 pleasure for me. It was full of little oddities that make it special to me.

The close-up of Archer's scanner screen, the away team suddenly becoming hungry, the interrogation scene (with the hand held camera zooming about), T'Pol's rare use of the "pinch", her reaction to Loomis' smoking and T'Pol's face kick in the front seat of the car. It also became very important episode within the arc. All stuff that makes me smile whenever I see this one.

Of course the episode had little offer in terms of drama, comedy, plot, but I still liked it.
 
Poor, boring, lame jokes and Super Archer :rolleyes:

What a boring episode and a complete waste of time.
 
I liked parts of this episode, like the drive-thru scene, where Archer asks T'Pol to come with him (and it makes sense for him to ask her -- they're friends and she's still on the fence about time travel) and T'Pol's reactions in much of the episode.

I love when characters interact with our own time, but thought the characters felt too comfortable in our shoes. Archer figured out how to drive a car right away -- I don't know if that's really plausible. I mean, would someone here know how to crank a car and hop into the one of the first model T's? How many still know how to drive stick shift? Also, I think it would've been more fun if he'd had more problems especially after, "I'm a starship captain, I think I can drive a car."

I also think they missed some opportunities with the bank machine and a few other scenes. I also didn't like the scene where they question Loomis. I didn't feel Bakula, the actor, had the right mix of desperation "we don't have much time" while he threatened Loomis. Then again, I think it was a writing mistake to have Archer visibly angry so much, when the actor's strength was in quiet anger - not loud anger.

This is a rare episode I didn't think Bakula was on his "A" game and the writing (hit or miss) didn't save it. I'd give this episode a C.
 
I'm with gblews - I dig this episode. I love the homage to the buddy-cop genre (much like North Star was an homage to the classic Western). It had great quietly funny moments. I still crack up at Loomis' offhand, "Have it your way" comment, T'Pol's running commentary on the scumminess of 21st century humans, and the "don't mind us, we're just trying to steal a car - that doesn't have a boot ... or a vicious dog in it" scene is terrific. I like that it does have an important place in the arc.

I don't mind the car driving; there's nothing to say that cars don't still exist in the 22nd century in some similar form - it's unlikely that the operational technology will change overmuch in the next 100 years, just as you could get on, say, a bike from 1900 and still be able to work it out - and more importantly, I learned how to drive at 16 which is proof positive that it's not that hard to do.
 
I've actually began to appreciate this episode better over time. It's no masterpiece nor is it exceptionally good, but the episode has its merits. Leland Orser is always a pleasure to watch, and for a time travel episode the setting was somewhat refreshing in the way that the action takes place during the night and not in the most beautiful environment. Shady neighbourhoods, prostitutes being abducted by some freak... almost like Star Trek in a "Millennium" setting.
 
Captain X said:
T’Pol also once again went on and on about how bad humanity was, at least in this era. :rolleyes: I guess it’s in Star Trek tradition to go on about how bad we are in our modern times….

I get sick of this, too.
 
I happen to think this is a great S3 episode. Their adjustment to a crummy part of our timeframe (a bad area of Detroit) is well done (i.e. driving a car, the drive-thru scene, eating a burger, etc). Leland Orser is very convincing as Loomis, and does a good job of having us hate him yet understand his POV, however deplorable. This is a good episode to show the Xindi arc heating up, and Archer's tension/frustration/fear r.e. the superweapon are put to good use. The fight scene on the roof is also well done.

Daniels is, again, not well utilized in this episode, which to me is its major drawback.

Definitely a strong episode, IMHO.
 
FalTorPan said:
Captain X said:
T’Pol also once again went on and on about how bad humanity was, at least in this era. :rolleyes: I guess it’s in Star Trek tradition to go on about how bad we are in our modern times….
I get sick of this, too.
That is such an early 21st century attitude. Amazing they ever get past such talk.
 
The bit at the drive-in was a nice piece of TVH-style humor, and Leland Orser is always a pleasure, but it's a transparently obvious bottle show (love that establishing shot of Backlot Street in the teaser), and not an inventive one.

Moreover, it isn't worked into the main arc very imaginatively; why not, say, have Daniels reappear at the end and have Archer at least try to pitch Daniels on letting Starfleet take the bioweapon back to 2154 with them once the contamination is removed from the timestream? From Archer's standpoint, they need all the help they can get against the Xindi, and Daniels is playing his cards so close to the vest that he isn't necessarily deserving of complete trust himself, so why not play it for conflict with Daniels (or, alternately, have Archer and T'Pol smuggle the virus back without clearing it with Daniels, so you have a fine setup for when the NX-01 gets to Xindus, and then the crew can wrestle with the question of whether to adapt the virus to their own uses based on their knowledge of the Xindi they've encountered)?

In the end, another episode of padding in a season that already had plenty of it.
 
As someone who can see Detroit across the river from my bedroom window...

Since when does Detroit have mountains?!!? I found the location shooting too distracting to pay much attention to the story.

They didn't even try.

(And as for the "talking down to humans of our time", I'm not sick of that at all. I agree with everything they say. It's why I like Star Trek. It shows how much better we'll hopefully become!)
 
If being "evolved" means being as conceited and arrogant as the characters are when they talk down about us like that, then I hope I never "evolve." Actually, that attitude is a big part of why TNG hasn't aged well for me.
 
^^^
TNG basically stopped doing that after the 2nd season. Maybe once more, but that went away as fast as Picard's "I love being French" talk.

There's basically only one reference to how much more evolved they are compared to us from seasons 3-7.
 
It still hasn't aged well for me. And pretty much every time I see it again in Trek it pretty much just pisses me off.
 
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