What in sam hell was Shinzons motivation for wanting to destroy earth?
That is all.
Thank you
That is all.
Thank you
Can someone please explain to me...
- Thread starter Jetboogieman
- Start date
If you follow the line of thought that he wants to destroy what's left of his human self, to dominate the quadrant and starts with the Federation, then I guess he has a reason. I think it's a stupid thing to do. He should be trying to destroy Romulus--get rid of the Romulans and take the planet. He hates them. And Picard rushing to save the Romulans could lead to peace between the Federation and the Romulan Empire that could've given Nemesis a happy ending.
the writers failed to take into account the change in Romulan politics brought about by the Dominion War, that the UFP and the Romulans were very recently allies.
Instead, it was meant to be that Shinzon thought of himself as a Romulan, with the Federation as the Romulans' traditional enemy, so that's why he was going after Earth.
Or maybe he was getting revenge on Picard, who didn't really have anything to do with Shinzon's condition.
who knows.
Instead, it was meant to be that Shinzon thought of himself as a Romulan, with the Federation as the Romulans' traditional enemy, so that's why he was going after Earth.
Or maybe he was getting revenge on Picard, who didn't really have anything to do with Shinzon's condition.
who knows.
Maybe it was some desire to prove that even though he was biologically human, his loyalties were Reman. He could rid himself of Earth whilst conquering the heart of the Federation, something which no one before him was successful in implementing. Although you have to consider that the Romulan's saw no reason to do such a thing and would be quite happy to just conquer the Federation and rule their territory, not resort to genocide in order to prove their superiority.
What in sam hell was Shinzons motivation for wanting to destroy earth?
That is all.
Thank you
To quote my article on Shinzon from Star Trek Magazine a while back:
Shinzon was obsessed with being a copy of someone else, and wanted to achieve his own greatness. But he was driven by anger and knew only negative emotions, so the only way he could see to make his mark on the galaxy, to overshadow Picard in the history books, was through an act of great destruction. In addition to the personal resonance I cited, Earth and the Federation are the obvious targets for someone wishing to make a big mark on history because they're the most powerful players in the quadrant. It's like the upstart gunslinger coming to challenge the most successful gunman around because defeating him will equal instant legendary status.
I think you need to see the movie again. As HaventGotALife said, Shinzon hated the Romulans. He thought of himself as Reman, and it was the Remans, as well as himself, that he wanted to establish as a major power through the coup of destroying the Federation's homeworld.
The funny thing is how closely 2009 follows Nemesis as far as the main antagonist. Both of them come out of absolutely nowhere. Both are bald trench coat fetishists, of Romulan origin, have big, bad ass, spiky ships with ultimate weapons, and attack Earth for no reason. I'm not saying I think either of these movies are good or bad. It's just interesting.
Yeah, I wish I could take Nero and throw him out the nearest airlock. The Ship was enough of a menance they didn't have to talk to him. His motivations made no sense.
What in sam hell was Shinzons motivation for wanting to destroy earth?
That is all.
Thank you
To quote my article on Shinzon from Star Trek Magazine a while back:
Shinzon was obsessed with being a copy of someone else, and wanted to achieve his own greatness. But he was driven by anger and knew only negative emotions, so the only way he could see to make his mark on the galaxy, to overshadow Picard in the history books, was through an act of great destruction. In addition to the personal resonance I cited, Earth and the Federation are the obvious targets for someone wishing to make a big mark on history because they're the most powerful players in the quadrant. It's like the upstart gunslinger coming to challenge the most successful gunman around because defeating him will equal instant legendary status.
I think you need to see the movie again. As HaventGotALife said, Shinzon hated the Romulans. He thought of himself as Reman, and it was the Remans, as well as himself, that he wanted to establish as a major power through the coup of destroying the Federation's homeworld.
right, he did think of himself as a Reman. My mistake. Still doesn't explain why actual Remans would want to help him on his personal vendetta which was about an inferiority complex regarding Picard. If they'd been successful, far from establishing themselves as a "major power," it would have meant a war they'd provoked as an aggressor, which might unite the AQ against them.
He wanted to prove a point to the Romulans. They had not defeated Earth in the Earth-Romulan Wars and he was determined to see the Remans rise up and show them how to do it.
Well thats a good theory, but that was never established.
Nothing was unfortunately that for me that's just the problem. The character as far as the script, the movie and again I say the character had no motivation to attack Earth whatsoever.
If anything the more interesting approach would would have been if perhaps Shinzon had started a Romulan Civil war and Picard and the Federation were forced to intervene. Kind of a Romulan movie version of Redemption Part 1 and 2.
I disagree completely, and Christopher (above) neatly sums up why. Shinzon was attacking Earth for a number of reasons, but chiefly to eradicate his "human self", the voice to his echo. It wasn't just enough to kill Picard; he wanted to destroy Earth.
What are you finding so hard to understand? Sure it's not the greatest reason, but loads of movies - and plenty of Trek stories - have characters acting for less-clear reasons for the sake of plot.
But just because it's trendy to bash everything about "Nemesis" we forget this...?
Apologies to Christopher, but i can't get my head around this. He wants to destroy earth... why? He tries to do this with one ship... why? He needs Picard's blood or whatever, and has him alone, and doesn't take it immediately... why? He's angry/jealous at Picard even though he has the more significant position at a younger age, leading Romulus... why?
By the movie's premise, most identical twins would be stone cold killers.
Fooey. Let's move on and bash something else.
By the movie's premise, most identical twins would be stone cold killers.
Fooey. Let's move on and bash something else.
Because, naturally, that's not how he sold it to them. It's not like he was honest to his allies about his true motives. He told them what they wanted to hear in order to win their allegiance. He told the Remans that he would help them overthrow their Romulan oppressors and achieve greatness. He told his Romulan allies that he would help them overthrow the appeasers and peacemakers currently in power and lead the Romulan military into a new era of conquest. But he was using them all to pursue his real agenda.
That doesn't follow at all. That's implying that Shinzon's beliefs were objectively true, which is missing the point. To quote my article again:
See, Shinzon claims that he and Picard are the same because they have the same genetics, but the whole philosophical point of the film is that he's wrong -- that he's using his origins as an excuse for everything he does now and is thus evading his responsibility to make himself a better man. Picard genuinely is better because he doesn't hide behind excuses of genetics, because he accepts his ability and responsibility for self-improvement.
It's also somewhat missing the point to define Picard and Shinzon as identical twins. The sci-fi conceit is that they're clones, but dramatically, the dynamic being written and played here is a father-son dynamic. As I put it in the article, "Essentially, Shinzon is a son rebelling against his father, resenting his overshadowing influence even while craving his recognition."
OK, the Remans in general went along because of Shinzon's manipulative lies. But why the Reman Viceroy? Frankly, his motivations are even murkier. Obviously, Shinzon helped liberate the Remans, so he helped fulfill a goal of the Viceroy's.
But the Viceroy had no personal vendetta against Picard, and no reason to view Earth and the Federation as an enemy. He knew exactly what Shinzon was planning. Why plunge the Remans into conflict to fulfill a revenge fantasy of Shinzon's?
But the Viceroy had no personal vendetta against Picard, and no reason to view Earth and the Federation as an enemy. He knew exactly what Shinzon was planning. Why plunge the Remans into conflict to fulfill a revenge fantasy of Shinzon's?
I think maybe that should have been my point in the OP.
Chris and others have attempted to rationalize the whole thing, and yes there's a distinct possibility what theyre saying is plausible.
But in the end, the writers simply deemed it unimportant to explain what Shinzons actual motivations were.
At no point in the movie does he, or anyone else tell us why.
There's no line from Shinzon saying "I want to kill those pesky Earthlings to start a Reman casino".
The novelization develops the backstory between Shinzon and his Viceroy, in a way the movie never could in the time allowed.
I just watched a deleted scene that explains Shinzon's motivation. It always seemed hasty to me that he decided late in the movie. However, this is a scene that comes before his introduction on the Scimitar (which is why it was cut, the audience would know him and his motivations). It is suggested in this scene that Shinzon was doing it to appease the Romulans and to consolidate his power. He promised them the Federation as a prize to get military support. Still, I don't know why it was needed. Just use his super weapon on the Romulan population and they can run the government without such cloak-and-dagger attacks. I haven't ever watched the scenes before so I guess my original post wasn't quite right. It actually makes sense, and it's lost because we wanted a dramatic reveal.
This movie should be around 2:40 in running time. It would've made more sense. The deleted scenes ticked me off.
Prolonging the torture?
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