Brown urged to keep hacker in UK

[The Borg Queen]

BBC News.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown has been urged to halt the extradition to the US of computer hacker Gary McKinnon.

Mr McKinnon, from Wood Green, north London, faces up to 70 years in prison if found guilty in the US of breaking into military computers.

Supporters held a vigil and delivered a letter to Downing Street calling for him to be tried in the UK instead.

Campaigners said the fact that Mr McKinnon has Asperger's Syndrome should be taken into account.

Glasgow-born Mr McKinnon trespassed on networks owned by Nasa, the US Army, Navy, Air Force, and Department of Defense in 2001 and 2002.

Despite taking his appeal to the House of Lords last year, he lost a six-year legal battle to avoid extradition.

The European Court of Human Rights also declined to back Mr McKinnon's case against extradition.

A decision on his proposed extradition is expected at a High Court hearing on 20 January.

Supporters held a candlelit protest outside the US Embassy on Friday.

Mr McKinnon's mother Janis Sharp said: "Gary is terrified, he's in pieces. The whole situation is heartbreaking, it's gone on for so long."

She added: "I think the US was embarrassed because Gary came out and said there were no passwords and no firewalls."

The US military said that Mr McKinnon left 300 computers at a US Navy weapons station unusable immediately after the 11 September 2001 attacks.

Mr McKinnon claims he was looking for UFO files.

Nadine Stavonina-de Montagnac, co-founder of the Autistic Culture Movement and Free Gary campaign spokeswoman, said this kind of obsessive behaviour was characteristic of people with Asperger's.

She said: "His obsession was so strong, he couldn't fight it. Even now Gary doesn't know what he's done wrong."

She added: "He is such a vulnerable man and I'm relying on Gordon Brown to help him."

I particularly liked "I think the US was embarrassed because Gary came out and said there were no passwords and no firewalls."

 

[drychlick]

i think he still has go to usa to faces what he done

 

[Butters]

i think he still has go to usa to faces what he done

I disagree.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I'll quote the important parts:

Campaigners said the fact that Mr McKinnon has Asperger's Syndrome should be taken into account......................


.................Nadine Stavonina-de Montagnac, co-founder of the Autistic Culture Movement and Free Gary campaign spokeswoman, said this kind of obsessive behaviour was characteristic of people with Asperger's.

She said: "His obsession was so strong, he couldn't fight it. Even now Gary doesn't know what he's done wrong."

She added: "He is such a vulnerable man and I'm relying on Gordon Brown to help him."

Aspergers syndrome

The fact the guy has this should be the icing on the cake for keeping this guy in the UK. Infact whoever agreed he should be extradited despite this fact need taking to court themselves.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

I particularly liked "I think the US was embarrassed because Gary came out and said there were no passwords and no firewalls."

In many ways this is a reason they should be thanking him for bringing this serious problem to their attention. Imagine if a terrorist organisation had gotten access to the same computers and imagine the damage they could have done.

Charlie

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I particularly liked "I think the US was embarrassed because Gary came out and said there were no passwords and no firewalls."

In many ways this is a reason they should be thanking him for bringing this serious problem to their attention. Imagine if a terrorist organisation had gotten access to the same computers and imagine the damage they could have done.

Charlie

It wouldn't surprise me if the Chinese were hacking into those systems undetected long before this guy did it.

 

[Pingfah]

i think he still has go to usa to faces what he done

No, the American government don't have a reciprocal extradition agreement with us, we still have to present all our evidence in a US court to get prisoners extradited to the UK.

They are just trying to snatch this guy without even presenting their evidence to us, so fuck them.

 

[starburst]

To me, being in the computing field, the US laying down such heavy handed sentances has always seemed more about getting over the embaresment that they have been hacked and could have done better. Come on its not like they could do any worse than us, our officials have left unencrypted storage drives on the bus before now.

Seeming that the way they teach computer security is the risks to a system, like if you packet sniff on open wireless network, e.g. in starbucks, you can get peoples usernames and passwords relativly easy, its never made sence that they lock these people up and dont use them. Especially true for the kids who have done it, they seem like the ideal candidate to have working for them a couple of years down the line.

What the fella did was stupid though...very stupid

 

[Deckerd]

It's hard to see how the USA could gain anything from this.

 

[Sean Aaron]

We'll see what the PM says; I hope it works out. My MP also assured me that the US does have a reciprocal extradition protocol in place, though I cannot confirm this -- anyone?

If so, y'all better watch it when slandering the royal family!

 

[Pingfah]

^ Then you need to have words with your MP who is either misinformed or lying. There is an extradition treaty between the 2 countries but it is not reciprocal. The UK has to present evidence to an American court to secure extradition, the US does not have to do the same.

Here's a couple of articles discussing it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7245677.stm

http://www.simmons-simmons.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blogs.permalink&page=2935

The controversial Treaty has recently been ratified by the Senate and the Home Office says there is no imbalance in the arrangements between our two countries. This is wrong. The need for probable cause in US law means that if the UK seeks extradition from the US we must still produce evidence. That requirement is not presently needed when the US Government wants to remove someone from here.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Neither of those articles is current and I asked my question (as part of writing her about this very issue) within the last few months.

Now if, as the BBC article suggests, the reciprocity was in the 2003 treaty in the first place, then that's renders Senate ratification moot...

 

[Pingfah]

I'm sorry, I don't get what you mean. The 2003 treaty removes the need for the US to present evidence to extradite a suspect, whlst reaffirming the requirement on the UK to do just that.

They were both written after the treaty was ratified, one in February of this year. The rules haven't changed since then.

 

[Sean Aaron]

I'm sorry, I don't get what you mean. The 2003 treaty removes the need for the US to present evidence to extradite a suspect, whlst reaffirming the requirement on the UK to do just that.

See I thought the treaty had the same rules for both parties; the issue was that Parliament ratified it before the US Senate did -- if that's not the case, then I am even more appalled than I already was...

 

[Pingfah]

Well I'm no expert, and i'm only going on what I have read online, but according to the articles i posted the imbalance exists after the treaty was ratified.

The only place I have read that it was Senate failing to ratify it that caused the problem is on the Wikipedia entry about the treaty which I can only presume to be wrong because everything else I have read seems to disgaree with it.

As far as I am aware before the senate ratified it the treaty was not enforceable at all, and effectively no "set in stone" agreement existed. Ratifying it means that an enforceable agreement still exists, but that it is still balanced against the UK as outlined in the Simons-Simmons article.

If there are any experts on the matter present, your help would be appreciated

 

[Saturn0660]

nice... my local walmarts wireless access is user:admin password:admin

 

[TerriO]

^Can we please not go there, even in jest? I'd really like us to NOT be encouraging others to hack their local wireless systems.

 

[Saturn0660]

I hear ya... I was just sayin... I use to work there.. I blasted out IT service company about not having Telxon access out side the store in the storage area... He was like "well hackers could get in the network".. I'm like "maybe if you changed the user and password from the default"???