Bridge Location????

[Rarewolf]

In DS9, when computer graphics took over from models in the VFX business, we saw more spectacular penetrating hits. Yet every time the enemy weapons hit the hull and carved bits out of it, the ship was immediately a total loss and typically exploded within seconds. We never saw a hit that would have been survivable for a deeply buried bridge.

The ship can survive the loss of all her top officers, but not a breach in her warp nacelle!

Timo Saloniemi

The flipside to the CGI fleet battles is there's so many of them they hardly render shields at all.

But if you look at some of the battles such as Tears Of The Prophets, we don't know some ships weren't salvagable. Down but not out.

A ship can survive the loss of the entire Bridge staff, but only with good backups immediately in place.

One of the closest comparisons might be TNG's Disaster. Though that probably wouldn't have mattered had Geordi been in Engineering at the time.

True, a direct hit to the hull can penetrate it... but how far? According to damage reports, most of it happens to sections along the hull's inner walls.

And even there, apparently without causing casualties. So a bridge on top of the ship could easily shrug off a hit like that!

OTOH, when we actually see a hit rather than hear about it, it becomes obvious that it's hopeless to hide within the hull:

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/6x26/tearsofthephrophets_511.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

The saucers are part of the thinnist of the ship, and probably don't have any additional armour plating that might be around vital systems. We did see a direct hit on the Bridge in Nemesis, it led to at least one fatality. Voyager's Deadlock also had the Bridge evacuated. Presumably the real reason we never saw it more often is they couldn't trash the most used set that often!

 

[malchya]

There was something "proper" to the placement of the bridge, IMHO. From a purely military standpoint the exposed placement doesn't make a great deal of sense, I agree. But, at least for me, I find the placement aesthetically pleasing from both a visual and a story telling standpoint. And, 45 years into the franchise, I have difficulty imagining them placed any where else. Hey, this is Trek.

If you want realistically placed, heavily armoured and deeply buried bridge locations, read Honor Harrington.

If you want to Go Boldly and etc., treat yourself to some Trek!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

various Miranda or Nebula bridges seen on-screen.

Of course on those designs you do have decks higher than the top of the saucer. If the Bridge is deck 1, what are they?

Are any of those habitable, though? I'd always thought they were only accessed for maintenance, like the nacelles.

That thing on top of a Nebula-class ship could be anything. Different vessels of the class have different modules up there. It can be swapped out and exchanged for a different one depending on the ship's mission.

As for the Miranda? No idea. Probably part of engineering.

 

[T'Girl]

a reinforced chamber in the center with walls about as strong as the outer hull

According to Kirk, that chamber is sickbay. It's the most protect part of the ship. It might be a philosophical thing, the senior officers leading from the front, while the sick and injured are protected. Similarly, Scotty (wearing his TMP radiation suit) is in the middle of engineering with rest of his engineers and technicians. Not off by himself in a heavily shielded control bunker.

And the bridge isn't all that exposed. In TWOK, when Kirk order yellow alert, Saavik then herself orders energize defense fields. A graphic show a umbrella shield over only the upper saucer decks. Being located above the "plain" of the saucer, the bridge might be easier to protect with a seperate dome shaped shield.

 

[jayrath]

Two things. First, remember the mission. Starships are not intended to be battleships. They're to "seek out new life and new civilizations," etc. The (fictitious) designers likely never thought that the Constitution class would be in regular shoot -em ups. No doubt there are real Starfleet war machines out there that are designed more for battle. Meanwhile, we still have auxiliary control as an internal back-up bridge deep within the ship.

And, in fact, we've seen very few deck one bridges actually destroyed, so their placement must be just fine. When they are shot up, the rest of the ship is about ready to explode, so an internal bridge wouldn't have served much better.

Second, when bridges were first introduced on ocean-going vessels, they were literally "bridges" -- between the paddle boxes of the early steamships. Officers had to be able to quickly walk from one side of the ship to the other to view the paddlewheels.

 

[Timo]

Similarly, Scotty (wearing his TMP radiation suit) is in the middle of engineering with rest of his engineers and technicians. Not off by himself in a heavily shielded control bunker.

OTOH, he didn't go to locations requiring such suits in TOS. Perhaps ST2 was an exception because it was a training cruise - getting a bit of unnecessary grease on the coveralls was good for the character of the trainees. And TMP of course featured a test run that could very well justify the crew spending time in otherwise sealed-off areas. Normally, even the refitted ship might be largely controlled from nice and clean "shirtsleeves" rooms like the ones seen in TOS.

Whether those coveralls protected anybody from radiation is debatable. Apparently, neither Scotty nor Spock thought highly of them in that respect in ST2.

On the "shipbuilding philosophy" issue, Klingons love to have their bridges exposed, too. Then again, they're a bit weird when it comes to self-survival. We'd have to learn more about where Romulans, Cardassians and other warlike but sensible folks keep their command centers...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Rarewolf]

That thing on top of a Nebula-class ship could be anything. Different vessels of the class have different modules up there. It can be swapped out and exchanged for a different one depending on the ship's mission.

As for the Miranda? No idea. Probably part of engineering.

Aren't torpedos launched from that section of the ships in Redemption II and The Wrath Of Kahn respectively?

 

[plynch]

If you take on the job of Starfleet bridge officer, you've got guts, too much guts to worry about whether you'll be the first or last thing crunched by a torpedo. You've also got pride, and you're damned if you'll let yourself be hidden away in the middle of the vessel.

The outer hull may not be the most logical spot for the bridge, but not everything we do is logical.

nice

 

[David cgc]

Whether those coveralls protected anybody from radiation is debatable. Apparently, neither Scotty nor Spock thought highly of them in that respect in ST2.

Even with the suit, Scotty's frail human body would've succumbed to radiation poisoning before he would be able to finish repairing the engines. Spock was just in too much of a hurry to put on a full suit, even though it may have saved his life. He did steal Scotty's gloves, to make sure his hands wouldn't melt off before he was done fixing the ship.

 

[Gary7]

True, a direct hit to the hull can penetrate it... but how far? According to damage reports, most of it happens to sections along the hull's inner walls.

And even there, apparently without causing casualties. So a bridge on top of the ship could easily shrug off a hit like that!

OTOH, when we actually see a hit rather than hear about it, it becomes obvious that it's hopeless to hide within the hull:

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/6x26/tearsofthephrophets_511.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

You can't protect the bridge against all possible attacks. I'm talking about reducing chances for damage that might compromise viable function. More physical layers can help to some degree. Also, the bridge being in the center of the saucer means faster access by the crew, especially in the case when turbo lifts are off-line.

According to Kirk, that chamber is sickbay. It's the most protect part of the ship. It might be a philosophical thing, the senior officers leading from the front, while the sick and injured are protected. Similarly, Scotty (wearing his TMP radiation suit) is in the middle of engineering with rest of his engineers and technicians. Not off by himself in a heavily shielded control bunker.

And the bridge isn't all that exposed. In TWOK, when Kirk order yellow alert, Saavik then herself orders energize defense fields. A graphic show a umbrella shield over only the upper saucer decks. Being located above the "plain" of the saucer, the bridge might be easier to protect with a seperate dome shaped shield.

We've seen plenty of cases where phasers penetrate the outer walls of a ship's bridge. In some cases it is a complete breach (you'll see this in Voyager, in "Year of Hell", with a force field being the only thing holding in atmosphere), other times the energy pulse causes circuitry to explode.


To me, it just doesn't make much sense to have the bridge where it is, except of course for entertainment convenience... being able to see the outer skin of the bridge, knowing the command crew are within it instead of buried somewhere inside, makes a better impression upon the audience.