News Brent Spiner to Return for "Picard"?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Turtletrekker, May 30, 2019.

  1. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He aged quite a lot while he died, though XD
     
  2. JamesRye

    JamesRye Commander Red Shirt

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    This guy edited a scene from Star Trek: Picard to give Data an improved look. It includes improved hair, eyes and de-aging. Frankly it's incredible, they should hire him as he's done an amazing job!
     
  3. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    Honestly............don't see THAT big of a difference.
     
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  4. Yes Man the Great

    Yes Man the Great Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Better, but Data still looks a little derpy though.
     
  5. Lt.Smokey

    Lt.Smokey Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    They did a good job, but Data's look wasn't a complaint for me to start with. The man is 71, so the show did just fine. IMO.
     
  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Same here. It served its purpose within the story.

    Honestly, the need to go back and fix is what gave us Remastered editions or the SW Special Editions. How much do we "fix?"
     
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  7. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The closer they get Data to look like he has not aged, the more it serves the story. Both because hes not supposed to age and because it makes him growing older in those few seconds more impactful.
     
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  8. JamesRye

    JamesRye Commander Red Shirt

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    Paused at exactly 1:00, its the improvement in the hairline and thinner face that sell it for me.
    Data's appearance really took me out of the moment in Picard because he just looked .... wrong.
     
  9. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm not sure why they dont just deepfake his young face and just use the actor for reference. It should be possible to make him almost identical to his TNG or Nemesis appearance

    That being said I wouldn't mind him playing data forever no matter the age
     
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think that DeepFake is still a tech that actors are leery about. Largely because they don't have as much control over the use of their likeness as well as reduces acting choices.
     
  11. Hatter76

    Hatter76 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    the problem with deepfaking Data(just in principal alone) is that it really does become CGI, people tend to confuse Digital touch-ups and outright CGI, Brent did not need CGI, just Digital touch-ups(how well they were handled is another story) when you deepfake him, that genuinely becomes a total digital face replacement, and that's genuinely in CGI territory. with Touch'ups, it keeps the in camera performance intact in a more legit and satisfying fashion, because the touch'ups are digital manipulation, not actual CGI, if Brent had been 80 years old, that might be a different story, but given how in shape he is and how well he's aged, Digital Touch-ups are really all that's needed. that being said. the above Video is an overall distinct improvement(in my opinion) it can be said that there isn't much of a difference, but that's because the changes are subtle, subtle, but correct, and if changes that minimal could have made a difference, then it's a sorry shame that CBS couldn't manage what someone managed on their home computer. and that's some Embarrassing BS, because this isn't 2000, it's 2020, they should have been able to fully deliver the goods. but as it's been said, they were going cheap all over the damn place with Picard
     
  12. Sebastianus

    Sebastianus Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Plus, deep fakes don't change the face shape or hair.

    I think they should have used old footage from Data for the vineyard scene. It worked very well in Star Wars 9 with Carrie Fisher. And they have all TNG episodes and movies in HD resolution (they even used some material from First Contact in Episode 6).
     
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  13. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Fully CGI young Jeff Bridges like in Tron Legacy is exactly what Data needed in my opinion. Yes it looks a little unreal but for an android that really fits. Maybe it costs too much money
     
  14. Hatter76

    Hatter76 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    given that they seemingly could not afford to make the touchups look less uneven and "Sloppy" yes I think a full CGI Data that looks realistic enough to interact with Patrick Stewart would have been out of the question. I mean as a what if scenario, if the budget was there, I would settle for Brent Spiner doing motion capture performance and Voice. but Ultimately, I still don't think a full CGI Data would have been necessary, because Data was supposed to look as he did when Picard and audiences last saw him, which is Star Trek Nemesis, and Spiner was very noticeably older there, so it made sense to only turn the clock back that far, and they came close, the biggest problems being his hair(that problem begins with the hairpiece) and making his face a we bit less puffy(which is not a huge feat if someone knows what they are doing) as is, he's not that far of the mark, that's where the frustration really is for me, because just a bit more careful work and they would have had it. but ultimately what matters most is how well it works for the Fans, as in suspension of disbelief, Some Fans don't have any problem at all with it(and I respect that) and some people think he should have been totally digital, others think he needed a bit more work.

    When your doing digital cosmetics(in this regard) you don't want it to be noticeable, at most you want people to be like "Wow they did a great Makeup Job, he really looks younger" the big fat problem right away with what was done in Picard, is he hairpiece for Data, the hairpiece was a bit off, then digitally pull the hairline down was over done, there were a few shots where it look almost passable, but for me(my trained eye) I thought it was rather obvious, and not just obvious as digital manipulation, but obvious as not being accurate
     
  15. Keith1701

    Keith1701 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Great Episode with Data
     
  16. Lt.Smokey

    Lt.Smokey Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Data was aging pretty clearly in the movies, too. Suspension of disbelief comes in for me here. We know he is an android and doesn't age or gain weight, just like we know what the original series Klingons are supposed to look like. Only so much you can do and there is no need to go overboard with the FX. I just appreciate Brent's willingness to sit in the makeup chair one more time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
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  17. Sebastianus

    Sebastianus Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes, it was too expensive.
     
  18. Sebastianus

    Sebastianus Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Some shots from the last episode just look ridiculous. Look at the low hairline and the fake jawline. They clearly had no time to do a better job.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Hatter76

    Hatter76 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm very grateful he came back, but he also said they convinced him that they could deage him, then while filming tell him they can't afford to, then ultimately do a half baked Job when there is not good reason for
    whats amazing is that they had time to pull down that much of the hairline, and reduce that much of his double chin and Jaw, prime example of overdoing it, the hair looks tacky, but the jaw looks freaky, this is where I can only excuse it on the basis of not enough time for refinement, people say "Well he's 71 years old" as if that's the issue or as if it's not possible to do better, that's a sorry bunch of hogwash, with more time and refinement he could look great, the digital tools are there, I would think the skill is there, unfortunately things get so rushed along. that kind of scenario pisses me off in general, I did a film where the Director was constantly telling me we only have a week, that I needed to get shots finished and sent to him pronto, yet that stretched into 3 years, and I can't bare to look at the result, because it's not the best work I could do, a total embarrassment to be credited with such cruddy looking rushed work, at least Picard had an actual Premiere date to meet, it's easier to let things slide when the rush to get it out is real
     
  20. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    I had no problem with Data's appearance. He looks more like the Data of old than Bruce Maddox or Icheb did, and I accepted them just fine. At least they didn't recast.
     
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