Borg and TOS Era

[FordSVT]

I disagree. The federation, starfleet had only been in the Alpha and Beta quadrant at that time The Borg are all around, adapting and assimilation thousands of species, new technology. it would only make sense that the Borg would have a huge advantage being technologicaly superior.

Then why was the Borg cube so susceptible to Picard's initial response? The E-D is far more powerful than the Enterprise to be sure, but by your logic, it should have easily resisted the assault. As it was--and I'll get the percentage wrong, as it's been years since I last saw "Q Who"--Picard wrecked something like 70% of the cube. Backing things up eighty years, I'd expect Kirk's ship to do similar damage against a 23rd century Borg cube.

To make that conclusion one would have to assume that the Borg have an identical advancement curve to the UFP. That, of course, is ridiculous. For all we know, the Borg have been virtually identical for a couple hundred years because conquests that significantly up their technological progress are few and far between. And they've been at it since our Dark Ages, at least.

And it was 20%.

If it wasn't for the intervention of a supernatural being, they would have been destroyed.

"You can't outrun them," says Q. "You can't destroy them. If you damage them, the essence of what they are remains – they regenerate and keep coming... eventually you will weaken – your reserves will be gone... they are relentless."

 

[smeos]

William Shatner's acting would have put them into a regeneration cycle and their ship would have self destructed.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

To make that conclusion one would have to assume that the Borg have an identical advancement curve to the UFP. That, of course, is ridiculous. For all we know, the Borg have been virtually identical for a couple hundred years because conquests that significantly up their technological progress are few and far between. And they've been at it since our Dark Ages, at least.

You're correct, the technological development of the two cultures wouldn't parallel exactly and it's very possible, arguably probable, the Borg's technological process had plateaued because they'd assimilated all the advanced cultures in the Delta Quadrant. The question left then is could a Series-era phaser do a similar amount of damage as the TNG system? It's difficult to judge because TNG weapons are presented as seemingly weaker, battles are at closer ranges, relative damage per hit seems less, etc. A lot of stock can't be put into that as the dramatic styles of the series' vary greatly, especially in the SFX.

And it was 20%.

I said I'd get the percentage wrong... way wrong. That doesn't alter my point that they did tremendous damage to the Borg before ceasing fire.

If it wasn't for the intervention of a supernatural being, they would have been destroyed.

"You can't outrun them," says Q. "You can't destroy them. If you damage them, the essence of what they are remains – they regenerate and keep coming... eventually you will weaken – your reserves will be gone... they are relentless."

Only because Picard calls a conference instead of finishing the Borg off. They had ceased returning fire and were taking serious damage with each shot. He quit, gave them a chance to adapt and repair. It was his arrogance and underestimation of his enemy which left him needing Q to save his bacon--exactly the point Q was making with this demonstration. They weren't ready to meet what was out there, not technologically and certainly not psychologically.

 

[FordSVT]

The question left then is could a Series-era phaser do a similar amount of damage as the TNG system? It's difficult to judge because TNG weapons are presented as seemingly weaker, battles are at closer ranges, relative damage per hit seems less, etc. A lot of stock can't be put into that as the dramatic styles of the series' vary greatly, especially in the SFX.

I'd think it safe to assume that nearly a century of weapons research and technological progress assure the Enterprise D would make short work of the original vessel. That's not a slight, it's common sense, in the same way a F-22 Raptor would make short work of a F-86 Sabre. Not to mention the power output of her warp core and other reactors are obviously higher. The TNG Tech manual says that when she was launched the Galaxy class had the most powerful phaser arrays ever placed on a starship, larger found only on planetary and orbital platforms. But shield technology would have progressed a great deal as well, which is why the D's phasers don't cut straight through a D'Deridex with one shot.

Only because Picard calls a conference instead of finishing the Borg off. They had ceased returning fire and were taking serious damage with each shot. He quit, gave them a chance to adapt and repair. It was his arrogance and underestimation of his enemy which left him needing Q to save his bacon--exactly the point Q was making with this demonstration. They weren't ready to meet what was out there, not technologically and certainly not psychologically.

You do have a great point, and I agree you may be right, but 20% is a long way from 100%, and even if Picard had kept firing the Borg may have been able to repair or modify their shields in time to prevent their complete destruction. Once that happens, you're back in the position of being screwed.

And who is to say that Kirk would not have made the same investigations once he believed the alien vessel to be crippled? He was always strong, but he was never blood-thirsty, and you know they'd be just as interested for intelligence reasons.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

I think it's unquestionable Kirk would have stopped firing and investigated the Borg ship himself. They were an unknown and if nothing else, Spock would have suggested it, as he did with the Horta, a known killer. The situation parallels "The Corbomite Maneuver" and until they were certain of the Borg's relentlessly hostile nature, Kirk, after bloodying their collective nose for their initial attack, would have tried to convince them of Star Fleet's peaceful intentions.

For all the good it would have done. Without Trelane or Charlie X to lend a hand, as with Picard, that choice would doom them.

 

[Ronald Held]

Being Kirk's series, he and Spock would have found some way to temporarily overpower the Borg and escape.

 

[blaXXer]

The Original Series and the Borg are two things that shall never be mentioned in the same sentence, except to say "I'm glad there were no Borg in the Original Series" or "Anyone who tries to shoehorn the Borg into the Original Series should have his pancreas fed to rats."

Also, do not bring up ST:Legacy up in that regard. DC Fontana might have written the story but it was hardly up to par with her other works.

 

[FordSVT]

Being Kirk's series, he and Spock would have found some way to temporarily overpower the Borg and escape.

Kirk doesn't exactly have the monopoly on escaping overwhelming odds through improvisation.

 

[Ronald Held]

True, but it a Kirk thread.
In the 23d Century, how many Alpha and Beta quadrant species and their technologies were absorbed by the Borg?