Best AI in Star Trek

[Pippin209]

Ive been wondering for a while what is the better example of AI?
its been a subject close to my heart for a while (loved all of Asimov's work) and have always loved Data and the Doctor.
But here is my quandary they are both artificial lifeforms with independent taught and 'feelings'. They are both given free reign to expand there conciousness and develop as a independent life form but witch one is truly an artificial 'LIFE?'

 

[Unicron]

I think there's an interesting difference between the EMH and Data, in that the latter was designed and intended by Soong to become self-aware independent, whereas the EMH gained some of those qualities somewhat unintentionally through the Caretaker's actions in stranding Voyager. I think that he earned the same rights as a distinct individual that Data has, but it's harder to judge for me whether this would favor the argument that other holograms are potentially life forms on the same level. It would depend on a number of things.

 

[bbjeg]

I'd put the Doctor on the same level as Data after he got the mobile emitter. Apart from Data's physical advantages, they operate on the same level (well, Data is fully functional so he's got that going for him too).

I'd rank the Borg over both of them though. They're a hive mind with the combined knowledge of thousands (if not millions) of civilizations.

 

[Maurice]

But isn't the intelligence in a hologram just a sophisticated program running in the ships computer?

 

[bbjeg]

^That's why I ranked him to Data after the mobile emitter was introduced.

 

[Albertese]

I've always assumed that the EMH's intelligence was a byproduct of developing the programming originally written by the Bynars to distract Riker in "11001001." I posit that their work, though temporary in the case of the Minuet program, left artifacts that were studied by holo-engineers and incorporated into the EMH to make a more effective and creatively-thinking doctor, not realizing that if you leave it running for a few years straight, it take's on a mind of it's own.

YMMV.

--Alex

 

[Pippin209]

I'd put the Doctor on the same level as Data after he got the mobile emitter. Apart from Data's physical advantages, they operate on the same level (well, Data is fully functional so he's got that going for him too).

I'd rank the Borg over both of them though. They're a hive mind with the combined knowledge of thousands (if not millions) of civilizations.

The borg however are not AI they are cyborgs a combination of organic and machine. They already had life before the borg they (for lack of better terminology) re-write the organic components to accept borg implants and data from the hive mind. They are not AI in any sense of the term as the hive mind is just one Queen controlling the information of trillions of minds directing the flow as required like an almighty ISP.

 

[Pippin209]

But isn't the intelligence in a hologram just a sophisticated program running in the ships computer?

Same for data his program is just held in his posatronic brain not the ships computer systems.

also the doctor has gained emotion on his own without the need of the emotion chip data requires to feel 'human emotions'

 

[Pippin209]

I think there's an interesting difference between the EMH and Data, in that the latter was designed and intended by Soong to become self-aware independent, whereas the EMH gained some of those qualities somewhat unintentionally through the Caretaker's actions in stranding Voyager. I think that he earned the same rights as a distinct individual that Data has, but it's harder to judge for me whether this would favor the argument that other holograms are potentially life forms on the same level. It would depend on a number of things.

i guess it depends on the complexity of the holograms programming. i.e. Michael Sullivan in VOY ep Fairhaven. he gains true to life emotions for Janeway (climbing a tree and professing his live for her) because Janeway gave him greater 'inelegance' as well as I guess a rudimentary understanding of love through poetry but again is this to do with been left running for a longer period of time as Albertese has mentioned. But however other less sophisticated programs (Chaotica for example) are relatively stupid but is this an intentional programming feature to allow the player to defeat them?

(Sorry for the spamming new to the message board thing

 

[JarodRussell]

The EMH is just horribly written. No way you would want an emergency doctor with ego, attitude, bad bed side manner and sometimes even argueing about direct orders. The EMH also appeared to be more sophisticated than Data ever was. Emotions to begin with, no problem with contractions, no problem with humor, etc...

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Moriarty was a conscious program that, in the end, ran disembodied on a portable device, with Regina.

 

[Pippin209]

I don't think that Moriarty was a fully concious AI. But in watching the episode it has made me me re-evaluate my previous statement about Michael Sullivan (VOY ep Fairhaven) as they where both just for filling there programming parameters Michael Sullivan being a perfect man for Janeway and Moriarty to be an intelligent foe for Data. both giving a good account of what the halo called a bumb AI (not fully concious but is capable of mimicking inelegance.
guys ur all awesome keep this going plz the gray matter is on overdrive!

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

You can add Leonardo da Gimli to the list as well. He SEEMED conscious, but was merely operating within the parameters of his program as was explicitly stated. For the most part, the Doctor was meant to be the same thing, but operating for years outside of those parameters allowed a true form of sentience to evolve IMO. One would only wonder what would have happened had Soong gotten ahold of the Bynar's technology to simulate sentience (assuming that's what it was - granted, there's 20+ years between these efforts anyway, show time). While fundamentally separate approaches, I think they got the same results.

Mark

 

[Unicron]

Leonardo da Gimli.

 

[RAMA]

I enjoy Data of course, but I kind of like the juxtaposition V'Ger from STMMP is to the original TOS, instead of trying to kill the AI, they try and learn and understand it, despite the apparent threat it was. In essence, it's more "ST" than TOS!

RAMA

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Ive been wondering for a while what is the better example of AI?
its been a subject close to my heart for a while (loved all of Asimov's work) and have always loved Data and the Doctor.
But here is my quandary they are both artificial lifeforms with independent taught and 'feelings'. They are both given free reign to expand there conciousness and develop as a independent life form but witch one is truly an artificial 'LIFE?'

M5, for the win.

Because it does everything that an AI -- a REAL one, at any rate -- would actually do. It makes judgement calls, it analyzes data quickly and efficiently, it reacts faster and more precisely and more efficiently than a human being could. The only real flaw in the M5 unit was its software: Doctor Daystrom (accidentally) programmed it with an inferiority complex and the machine did its best to interpret its (subconsciously entered) "Make them sorry they doubted me" program.

I have to think that the exact same computer using memory engrams from someone a lot more stable (Spock, for example) could very well serve for a hundred years without so much as a hickup.

The EMH is just horribly written. No way you would want an emergency doctor with ego, attitude, bad bed side manner and sometimes even argueing about direct orders. The EMH also appeared to be more sophisticated than Data ever was. Emotions to begin with, no problem with contractions, no problem with humor, etc...

There's also the fact that they established on multiple occasions that his program can be "transferred" to various portable storage devices, yet for no reason at all it can't run in multiple locations at the same time.

E.G. you can't copy yourself to your mobile emitter and then run a version of yourself in the sickbay. It would make sense if the reason for this was that the Doctor lives in the computer all the time and he's just broadcasting himself to the emitter from the ship's computer, but then that wouldn't explain why he can't be in two places at once or why, if he transfers to the mobile emitter, a copy of his last saved state BEFORE the transfer isn't still in the computer.

Basically: Voyager writers don't understand computers.
Or evolution.
Or genetics.
Or space travel.
Or black holes.
Or basic science of any kind.

 

[T'Girl]

Basically: Voyager writers don't understand ... black holes.

According to Steven Hawkings up until recently neither he nor anyone else understood black holes either.

 

[Gardener]

There's also the fact that they established on multiple occasions that his program can be "transferred" to various portable storage devices, yet for no reason at all it can't run in multiple locations at the same time.

E.G. you can't copy yourself to your mobile emitter and then run a version of yourself in the sickbay. It would make sense if the reason for this was that the Doctor lives in the computer all the time and he's just broadcasting himself to the emitter from the ship's computer, but then that wouldn't explain why he can't be in two places at once or why, if he transfers to the mobile emitter, a copy of his last saved state BEFORE the transfer isn't still in the computer.

Maybe there's a rule about copying sentient beings. Transporter technology would allow people to copy themselves as well. Theres no technical reason why anyone in starfleet couldn't be in two places at once. Transporters could just be turned into copiers. It seems like you would need a rule like that to prevent people from copying themselves all the time.