Battle of Khitomer remastered in 4K
- Thread starter Verteron
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The Visual effects still holds up very well, and still is the shining light of this movie. Meyer was very smart saving his pennies and begging/ fighting the heads up at Paramount to get the budget he thought could make that picture. It is VI's saving grace! Just imagine what this movie could've looked like if Meyer had the Visual effects company hired for The Final Frontier? I doubt there would be too many Trek fans championing "The Undiscovered Country". To this day, I still think it's the worst Star Trek title I'd ever read.
Kruge's BoP didn't destroy the Refit, Kirk did.
Funny, as I think TUD is one of the strongest stories and represents some of the best character development for the TOS crew since Spock's death. The Cold War / Chernobyl / Fall of Berlin wall parallel works well without being stupidly expositional or hammy.
Kirk realises some enemies might be his friends and some friends might be his enemies. Spock utters the famous line that logic is the beginning of understanding, not the end, before being brutally betrayed by his protege. Kirk finally accepts that he's getting old.
And the TOS saga closes by showing us that even two arch enemies might settle their differences in time. Real Roddenberry stuff.
But hey, I respect that you have your opinion. I just very much don't share it with you.
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Spock: The key, please, Doctor. Time is short
[Cut to torpedo hitting ripping through Enterprise's's primary hull]
Spock: The hull has been compromised
McCoy: wonder how bad...
Spock: Connect echo bars
[Cuts to Federation President's speech]
Spock: Alter circuit 'A'
McCoy: Sensor!
[Cuts to Federation President's speech]
Chang (over comm): I am constant as the Northern Star
McCoy: I'd give real money if he'd shut up
Spock: Plate please
McCoy: Plate!
[Cuts to Federation President's speech]
McCoy: we've got a heartbeat!
Spock: Key please
McCoy: Key!
Kirk (over comm): Where's that damned torpedo!
McCoy: She's ready, Jim! Lock and load!
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I honestly tend to think that TUC, while admittedly fairly enjoyable, is also a rushed mess of contrivances, plot holes, and inconsistent tone. The core story is just fine (meaning, if you were to read the hypothetical 1-page treatment)...but the execution was far too sloppy and rushed for me to consider it "one of the strongest stories." The dialogue is laughable at times, with Meyer over-indulging in his love of classic literature to the point of it becoming tiresome and ridiculous (and perhaps a bit pretentious).
I also disagree that it best represents the TOS characters. Kirk is very out-of-character in the film, Spock even more so. The interplay is far too "winky at the camera" for me to take it too seriously.
And, while I don't give a crap about "Roddenberry Stuff" at all....I disagree that this is in line with "His Vision," as it portrays the Federation and Starfleet characters as painfully prejudiced and fearful in most cases, with several opting for war and violence rather than a chance at peace.
For me, it's a lower-tier TOS film and a mid-grade film in the overall franchise. I know that isn't a common opinion...but I stand by it.
Well, Bones, if you were actually doing your job - in Sickbay - you might know....
I just feel sorry for the guys who cleaned up the stateroom after Gorkon's dinner.
Like the Hobbit trilogy, there's a good movie buried inside the bad one. TUC was a solid film, with a lot of potential to be more.
Yes...I don't want to be misunderstood...I like and enjoy TUC quite a bit. I just don't think it is as praiseworthy as many people seem to feel about it. It's a solid Star Trek movie. It is deeply disappointing in many ways as well...
But, I'm pretty balanced when it comes to Trek movies. Just like feeling TUC is a bit over-appreciated, there are likewise a number of films I don't feel have earned the deep hatred they receive (TFF, TMP, NEM).
The only Trek movie I feel is truly a classic "great movie" is TWOK, and the only Trek movie I feel really is a steaming pile of forgettable garbage is INS. Everything else is pretty good and there's not a lot of separation between them in terms of how I feel.
No matter how much I want to find ways to make TUC better, I think the things I would do would be changing would be extremely small, editorial changes, rather than correcting the larger tone. I think the tone is solid, largely because it builds upon the huge thrust of mistrust of the Klingons, from TOS forward. I think it is more in step with TOS as a whole, than with the recent films, especially TFF, so there is that and I understand it.
I just take TUC largely on its own. I don't feel it needs to connect overtly with the past films to be an interesting character exploration piece. The final scene is tense and well done, and Kirk's journey is among my favorites. Like I said, small edits for me would elevate the film, but the overall story is one I find far more engaging than TWOK.
Mileage will vary.
I just take TUC largely on its own. I don't feel it needs to connect overtly with the past films to be an interesting character exploration piece. The final scene is tense and well done, and Kirk's journey is among my favorites. Like I said, small edits for me would elevate the film, but the overall story is one I find far more engaging than TWOK.
Mileage will vary.
The one thing I would take out of TUC is the Klingon translation scene. Even Nichelle Nichols thought it was stupid that as communication officer and the Klingons were the Fed's longest enemies, that Uhura couldn't fluently speak Klingon. Plus, as a comedy scene it always falls flat for me.
Indeed. A lot of times with Trek films I always feel like there is one small step from good to great. TUC had some small edits and additions that would do that. TWOK is the same way. TUC tops out because the character moments carry more weight for me, but that doesn't automatically mean there couldn't be improvements; just that the good outweighs the more ridiculous moments, like that translation scene.
My issues with TUC are with Nicky Meyer’s dogged insistence that he treat it like a 19th century naval drama uninterested in established Trek technology and lore, mixed with an obvious Sherlock Holmes Mystery on top of making the main characters racist. I’d buy Kirk, but it would be interesting to have seen Uhura and Chekov actually uncomfortable with Kirk’s diatribes.
The film was made hastily and it shows. There are weird continuity errors and plot holes. And the fact that nobody noticed Valeris’ collar and braid colors didn’t match was surprising. It actually looks cheaper than TWOK since they barely redressed the TNG sets.
There is a lot of good in this film, but it feels like a Nicky Meyer vanity project where TWOK was more team effort with Meyer and Bennett and Bob Sallin all molding the story and visuals together. If Star Trek V was as well received as TVH, I'm sure this movie would not have been as enthusiastically embraced. Much like Spock's Brain got "worst episode ever" title because that was the reward for fan campaigns to save the series.
However, Nimoy was great and the final battle, while weirdly overdubbed in a lot of scenes, is excellently edited and very exciting. It has the most satisfying BoP explosion ever. So good that when GEN used it a few years later, it felt tacky.
The film was made hastily and it shows. There are weird continuity errors and plot holes. And the fact that nobody noticed Valeris’ collar and braid colors didn’t match was surprising. It actually looks cheaper than TWOK since they barely redressed the TNG sets.
There is a lot of good in this film, but it feels like a Nicky Meyer vanity project where TWOK was more team effort with Meyer and Bennett and Bob Sallin all molding the story and visuals together. If Star Trek V was as well received as TVH, I'm sure this movie would not have been as enthusiastically embraced. Much like Spock's Brain got "worst episode ever" title because that was the reward for fan campaigns to save the series.
However, Nimoy was great and the final battle, while weirdly overdubbed in a lot of scenes, is excellently edited and very exciting. It has the most satisfying BoP explosion ever. So good that when GEN used it a few years later, it felt tacky.
The Klingon translation scene is bad, I agree.
There is also a pretty awful plot gaffe - at the start of the film it's stated Excelsior has been cataloguing gaseous anomalies in the Beta Quadrant when they get hit by the Praxis shockwave.
Later in the film Uhura makes the suggest they use "all that equipment we're carrying to catalogue gaseous anomalies" on Enterprise to build the torpedo that follows Chang's BoP's emissions trail.
Frustrating.
Plus the theatrical cut leaves out some great scenes, including the reveal that the Presidential assassin on Khitomer is actually Colonel West in a Klingon mask. Ties up a lot of plot points more neatly.
There is also a pretty awful plot gaffe - at the start of the film it's stated Excelsior has been cataloguing gaseous anomalies in the Beta Quadrant when they get hit by the Praxis shockwave.
Later in the film Uhura makes the suggest they use "all that equipment we're carrying to catalogue gaseous anomalies" on Enterprise to build the torpedo that follows Chang's BoP's emissions trail.
Frustrating.
Plus the theatrical cut leaves out some great scenes, including the reveal that the Presidential assassin on Khitomer is actually Colonel West in a Klingon mask. Ties up a lot of plot points more neatly.
