Bat'leths

[JRoss]

Am I the only person disappointed by the prominence of bat'leths? Look at the weapon in use. Due to it's awkward banana shape the weapon's reach is severely curtailed. I found this to be made all the more disappointing when you look and see maces and swords of far more menacing and somewhat more practical design hanging on the walls, yet besides Duras no Klingon using anything bigger than a knife uses anything other than a bat'leth until they created the mek'leth.

 

[RoJoHen]

I wish I had a bat'leth.

 

[AdmiralGarak]

The bat'leth is a cultural status symbol. Other weapons might be more efficient, but they don't have the sacred meaning to a Klingon that a bat'leth does.

 

[SchwEnt]

^^^ Agreed. It's a symbolic traditional thing.

Never mind the other superior or more practical blades, they've got disruptors and phasers and all that. Sure, there are easier better ways to kill enemies. Only reason to still use the bat'leth is tradition and cultural significance.

 

[JRoss]

Yes, but the real-world reason for their existence and continued use is a problem. Dan Curry is supposedly a martial arts expert. Looking at the bat'leth the thing is obviously inspired by a hanging daisho. Curry had to realize how poorly a bat'leth performs in real life. That's the whole reason Michael Dorn asked them to come up with something marginally useful in combat. Yadda yadda yadda new age mysticism and all that, but couldn't the props folk have created a better product to use in filming?

 

[Paradon]

In a real life and death situation...it's difficult to fight. The more clumsy and heavy the weapons...the harder it is to wield the weapons. You need to teach your soldiers to fight and discipline them before going out into the battlefield. This is why the Romans were a force to be recon with...they could probably fight bear hand if they had to... Some people just freeze up if you don't know how to properly motivate your troops...you can walk right up and take the sword away. The lighter and shorter ones are actually easier to use...with the right length and weight they can actually do far more damage than a longer heavier sword. The concept is actually like axes. If you use the same amount of force on the smaller shorter sword, but with the right amount of mass per-square inch V.S. a larger longer European swords...the machete actually can cut a lot better. Try hack down a branch with with machete and European broad sword...the machete probably wins any day.

This is why ancient Thai soldiers love to use machete like swords, and the Roman stouter and shorter swords than the later Europeans.

 

[Cicero]

I seem to remember an article published 10-15 years ago that indicated that Bat'leths weren't meant to be used in the manner in which they were typically employed on screen (i.e. to make hacking motions). IIRC, they were intended to be used fluidly, as an extension to or adjunct of the arm, to make slicing movements.

 

[Timo]

In a real life and death situation...it's difficult to fight.

So perhaps the Klingons are given inferior bladed weapons so that they would be better fighters? If they can manage with that curved double-hander, they are tougher than anybody else!

Alternately, the fighting banana is used because it is a superior defensive weapon. It offers multiple handguard options, most of which are painful to the attacker while adequately protecting the defender. It is good at catching swung blades of all sizes, as the two-hand grip can resist the sheer force of a broadsword swing, while the extensive reach helps deflect attacks by more agile blades from a number of directions and angles without requiring the defender to maneuver the defending blade much.

The offensive capabilities may come as a pure bonus, then. Note how the historical Sword of Kahless had even more barbs and spikes to disrupt the forward cutting surface and augment catching action! Use of two-hand blades makes use of shields impossible - but in this case also unnecessary, except against ranged weapons. If Klingons didn't believe much in slings and arrows (just like they strangely avoid modern ranged weapons), then this form of defense would be an obvious choice.

It's only when the attacker is exhausted that the Klingon warrior releases his hold of one end of the weapon and swings it in a deadly arc...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ayelbourne]

IIRC, they were intended to be used fluidly, as an extension to or adjunct of the arm, to make slicing movements.

The way Klingons fight with them does seem to suggest that, yes. But if you want a blade for slicing, why would you outfit it with hooks?
The curved blade and the hooks at the side suggest that the purpose isn't slicing but ripping someones guts out.

Pretty much like the Dothraki Arrac from Game of Thrones:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXD7MDIp8w8&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL1C66B9589CFC2C90

watch at the 1:50 mark (Warning! quite gory!)

 

[SchwEnt]

I think a large part of it is also some creative license.

Practically speaking, a Klingon bladed-sword type weapon would likely end up like any sword we have today. Many human cultures have had sword weapons spanning centuries and they are fairly similar in design. I suspect Klingons (being humanoid) would develop similar swords. Hodgkin's Law of Parallel Weapon Development.

But as often happens in ST, to portray "alienness", the bat'leth was given a unique design. Maybe not the most practical or efficient, but maybe it was more important to design something "Klingon" looking for dramatic purposes.

 

[Timo]

It could also indicate an "old" fighting culture. Iron swords on Earth are only about three thousand years old as an invention, and metallurgy has been extremely primitive until the most recent five hundred years. It simply isn't possible to create something like the bat'leth with such primitive technology - but the Klingons, potentially possessing of an older culture, might have done it for the sheer heck of it, just to show off their advanced metallurgy skills.

Mind you, a simple hacking or thrusting blade is a fairly poor weapon against another of the kind - handguards are an essential addition, and vital for unskilled fighters as well as for unfortunate or fatigued skilled ones. Well-leveraged sharp points such as those at the ends of the bat'leth are also necessary for armor piercing: a straight blade won't cut it, literally, but a spike at an angle against the leverage arm (such as in a halberd or a battle hammer) will.

Most weapons in the history of mankind are nonoptimal ones, plagued by shortcomings in manufacturing techniques and in the ability of humans to carry or wield them. A culture may cherish its indigenous product, such as a katana, kukri, halberd, Schmeisser or Kalashnikov - but that doesn't mean they would be particularly good weapons in the general sense, merely appropriate ones for a specific period in history (and often ceremonially appropriate ones for periods following that one!).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Paradon]

You have to be careful because you don't want to carry too many things. When you are scared shitless, I think sometimes people just dropped everything and run if they carried many things... It's really hard to decide what to do when your hands are full. Over reliance on gadgets is a big problem on battlefields. Romans armies were very simple with weapons designs and the way it is used... In Thailand you have all the thick undergrowth so movement and the ability to see far ahead may become impede and become an issue when engage in a death match. And this is why they devoted different units with different weapons...depending what how they were supposed to fight and against what.

 

[Paradon]

In a real life and death situation...it's difficult to fight.

So perhaps the Klingons are given inferior bladed weapons so that they would be better fighters? If they can manage with that curved double-hander, they are tougher than anybody else!

Alternately, the fighting banana is used because it is a superior defensive weapon. It offers multiple handguard options, most of which are painful to the attacker while adequately protecting the defender. It is good at catching swung blades of all sizes, as the two-hand grip can resist the sheer force of a broadsword swing, while the extensive reach helps deflect attacks by more agile blades from a number of directions and angles without requiring the defender to maneuver the defending blade much.

The offensive capabilities may come as a pure bonus, then. Note how the historical Sword of Kahless had even more barbs and spikes to disrupt the forward cutting surface and augment catching action! Use of two-hand blades makes use of shields impossible - but in this case also unnecessary, except against ranged weapons. If Klingons didn't believe much in slings and arrows (just like they strangely avoid modern ranged weapons), then this form of defense would be an obvious choice.

It's only when the attacker is exhausted that the Klingon warrior releases his hold of one end of the weapon and swings it in a deadly arc...

Timo Saloniemi

Funny you should say that! [chuckle] It's kindda like nobody really likes Asians that can actually whoop their ass and more athletic than they are... [laugh]

 

[Sandoval]

I wish I had a bat'leth.

I'd rather a phaser.

 

[RoJoHen]

Meh. Phasers are boring.

 

[Timo]

And slicing. Two sword types in one!

(Although apparently the boring action always gets chosen over the slicing one, for some reason.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kelso]

The Worf Christmas ornament that hangs from my rear-view once punctured a hot chocolate cup from QT with his Bat'leth during an escape attempt.

Anyone who doubts the Bat'leth's effectiveness has never seen one in action.

 

[indolover]

Why do Klingons do the hand twirl thing before fighting with bat'leths? Is it just to build a momentum?

 

[JRoss]

For the same reason the Jedi twirl their lightsabers and needlessly risk dismemberment. Some fool thought that it looked cool. In-universe, probably some dumb "gathering their chi" mumbo jumbo.

 

[SilentP]

Maybe it's just to loosen their wrists to be more flexible.