Bashir's creepy patient fetish

[JirinPanthosa]

We all see Melora and Crystalis in which Bashir takes an alien with a weak skeleton and a genetic augment who has been catatonic all her life, falls in love with them, and tries to medically transform them into something he can date. In both cases completely ignoring their wishes until he realizes the effect he's having on them.

But these are only the most extreme examples. As we might recall, when Leeta first flirts with Bashir, how does she does it? She plays the part of a patient. Bashir is immediately attracted. If the woman he treated in Quickening weren't dying, he probably would have fallen in love with her too. The only women Bashir shows any affection for who are not in some way or another under his treatment either act like patients as foreplay or are named Dax.

Patients to a doctor both flatter his professional genius, and give him lots of power over them, which is probably why Bashir is attracted to them. His holodeck fantasies satisfy both these requirements in a different way.

My question is, why did this seem so normal in the 1990s? In retrospect it's incredibly creepy, but in 1999 Serena just seemed like 'Aww, genetic augment love!' Were we just so brainwashed by the manifest destiny of male characters' entitlement to the female object of their fantasy back then we didn't notice these things?

 

[Amaris]

In retrospect, most things are creepy. As culture changes, ideas about how people should behave in society also change.

 

[Jefferies]

It is interesting you bring this up. I only just re-watched Explorers a few days ago (the episode where Bashir first meets Leeta as described in your post). As a doctor myself I was appalled at his lack of professionalism. Worse still he does this in full view of Quark's patrons, which could have the added effect of significantly damaging trust from the community he is meant to serve. It was so jarring it completely took me out of the episode for a while and I have not viewed Bashir in quite the same light as I used to in subsequent episodes.

I guess some might argue that a doctor should have a right to be flirtatious in his off-time and it is quite possible that Leeta is not on his patient register and thus not his patient. However, the sleaziness and public display of his conduct are definitely problematic. If he was in a faraway place and no one knew him as a doctor and his patients weren’t likely to be around I would cut him more slack but this was definitely not the case in this scenario and he should have had that awareness.

I don't remember Melora and Crystalis well enough but from what you are saying it sounds like they would not be compatible with contemporary standards about how a medic should behave. If he indeed infringed upon a competent patient's right to decide or abused his influence over them, trying to groom romantic relationships, he would face a severe caution, suspension or even a loss of his licence to practice should someone raise concerns about him to the medical professional body.

 

[Qonundrum]

And vice-versa. In the 24th century, it was deemed normal. The show was conveying what humans might be like in that time period, per the vision of Gene Roddenberry himself, not just how humans admitted their faults as Kirk told Anan 7, but being more "evolved" since then. And not just throwing a bunch of fast food fry cooks into a military ship that act as if they came out of a 1990s teenybopper movie, either.

Bashir wasn't as creepy, from a 20th century perspective, as Admiral Hansen for saying outright about Shelby being one of his fantasies either. In the future, at least Hansen knew it as a fantasy and remained professional - maybe that was the intent of the story's scene? But that's Hansen being horny, I didn't see the other episode but "Melora" there's clearly an emotional attraction. Bashier, IMHO, just likes to help people and lets his emotions get in the way, partly due - perhaps - to his being single? It's not like he's actually forcing himself on people, he still does not cross obvious lines. Of course, if women went after men, but wasn't that what "Angel One" was supposed to tell, in its own clichéd and mindless "role reversal with shoulder pads and mullets" sort of way?

It's just a show showing other people from other times and places, it's not telling us how to live. Which can be both good and bad.

Heck, if Gene Roddenberry were alive today he'd be skewered for his statements on treating women as objects and everything else, including saying how he would have men used as objects too.

 

[kkt]

I don't see any reason to think Serena would have preferred to remain catatonic rather than be treated. And I don't think Bashir started having feelings for her until after she came out of her catatonic state. Yes, he was wrong to ever express those feelings to her, and I'm glad they had a scene with O'Brien telling him he was wrong.

And Leeta and Bashir both realized they were just using a social figure of speech to go someplace more private. It's no more a problem than inviting someone to your quarters to see your imaginary etchings. And if I recall, Leeta initiated the transparently fake cough and request for treatment, not Bashir.

His actions in Melora were troubling though.

I can't believe your criticizing him for actions in The Quickening which never even happened.

 

[Amaris]

It seems more like Dr. Bashir suffers from Florence Nightingale Syndrome. When you care for someone, even if you know little about them, that feeling can be mistaken for love. It does happen.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't fault Bashir for having those feelings, I fault him for attempting to convert them to sex. It's one thing to have those problems, it's one thing not to be aware that you are in a position of power over a person when you try to start a relationship.

Melora was at the very least an emotionally competent adult. Serena had the emotional intelligence of a pre-schooler.

Of course Serena would not have preferred to remain catatonic. Reversing her condition was not the problem. She was an emotional infant, with no idea how to deal with a real relationship, and he still hit on her. At least this episode showed the real consequences of this, nearly terrifying her back into a catatonic state.

The scene with Leeta in Explorers would seem completely normal flirtation if it weren't seen in the light of those other Bashir episodes where he grossly violated medical ethics. Just in the view of those other episodes, it casts a light on what exactly turns him on.

 

[at Quark's]

In retrospect, most things are creepy. As culture changes, ideas about how people should behave in society also change.

I think our sensibilities have changed over the years. For example, I think that if DS9 were produced today, even some 'innocent' things, like all those Vedeks grabbing the ears of Bajorans and non-Bajorans alike for feeling their paghs without necessarily asking for consent first would have been left out, to avoid all possible association with contemporary issues.

 

[Amaris]

I think our sensibilities have changed over the years. For example, I think that if DS9 were produced today, even some 'innocent' things, like all those Vedeks grabbing the ears of Bajorans and non-Bajorans alike for feeling their paghs without asking for consent first would have been left out, to avoid all possible association with contemporary issues.

Good example. I even catch myself thinking that every so often. I see a Vedek grab someone's ear and I think "hey, hands to yourself, buddy!"

 

[Jayson1]

If Bashir is everyone's doctor whose on the station who can he fall in love with? WIth Melora I don't even know if he was her main doctor or was he more of a specialist who was helping her with this one type of surgery. With Serena he did remove himself as her personal doctor before they pursed a romance. I mean it can be a delicate situation but not a necessary problem in all cases. With Melora she was also a fellow Starfleet officer who were more or less equals. Serena is more of a real issue and he did make a mistake but then again that was part of the story and he realized he had made a mistake. He let being lonely guide him towards making a mistake. Lyta and him were just flirting with each other.

Jason

 

[F. King Daniel]

He liked feet too. Double squick.

 

[Spot261]

If Bashir is everyone's doctor whose on the station who can he fall in love with?

I'm not at all sure he is, I've always assumed being CMO meant there were others knocking about we just didn't tend to see. After all, what happens if he gets sick?

He liked feet too. Double squick.

Nothing wrong with that one.

 

[Jayson1]

I'm not at all sure he is, I've always assumed being CMO meant there were others knocking about we just didn't tend to see. After all, what happens if he gets sick?



Nothing wrong with that one.

I think with Starfleet you have other doctors but it seems like the CMO takes on the bulk of responsibility for everyone's health. It's kind of like being in charge of a Hospital but you also have to do all the major surgeries. Granted that might simply feel like that because your CMO is a series regular and other doctors are never seen that much. Another neat thing is they make house calls which no doctors do anymore and maybe they never did. I didn't like pre-1975 so that might have been a tv cliche more than how reality worked back then.

Jason

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Bashir was creepy. Being a doctor was incidental.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

After all, what happens if he gets sick?

Everyone visits the Orb for a quick diagnosis.

 

[Spot261]

I think with Starfleet you have other doctors but it seems like the CMO takes on the bulk of responsibility for everyone's health. It's kind of like being in charge of a Hospital but you also have to do all the major surgeries. Granted that might simply feel like that because your CMO is a series regular and other doctors are never seen that much. Another neat thing is they make house calls which no doctors do anymore and maybe they never did. I didn't like pre-1975 so that might have been a tv cliche more than how reality worked back then.

Jason

Nah, it's just the CMO is the one shown on screen because they're a main character.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Given the world described in Trek, it is possible for Bashir to be the only doctor or for his nurses to administer more care than they would present day. No paperwork. Diagnoses are a tricorder away--no waiting for lab results. Heart disease? Hypospray, please. It should be possible for fewer people to deal with ordinary health problems. The only issue should be during those attacks on the station.

 

[maneth]

Given the world described in Trek, it is possible for Bashir to be the only doctor or for his nurses to administer more care than they would present day. No paperwork. Diagnoses are a tricorder away--no waiting for lab results. Heart disease? Hypospray, please. It should be possible for fewer people to deal with ordinary health problems. The only issue should be during those attacks on the station.

Indeed. Especially given that the Federation ships and stations are essentially run as military units, even if some of them have a large percentage of civilian personnel (DS9 being the main example). I'm pretty sure most soldiers get at least some first aid training, even if they aren't medical personnel.

 

[Timewalker]

My question is, why did this seem so normal in the 1990s?

I think it's more that it was normal for Bashir, not that it was normal in the '90s, or at least outside of soap operas. Even now, General Hospital has a timeline in which a doctor and his patient are in a relationship.

Another neat thing is they make house calls which no doctors do anymore and maybe they never did. I didn't like pre-1975 so that might have been a tv cliche more than how reality worked back then.

Even in the '80s my grandfather's doctor made a house call.

 

[Spot261]

Given the world described in Trek, it is possible for Bashir to be the only doctor or for his nurses to administer more care than they would present day. No paperwork. Diagnoses are a tricorder away--no waiting for lab results. Heart disease? Hypospray, please. It should be possible for fewer people to deal with ordinary health problems. The only issue should be during those attacks on the station.

Even in the world we know the roles of doctor and nurse in many case are blurring. Nurse prescribers and therapists routinely diagnose ailments, prescribe medication and manage courses of treatment at increasingly more sophisticated levels. They carry out research and publish in scientific journals, they take on strategic roles and chair decision making and political committees. This is not universally the case around the world (Germany, for instance has a very old fashioned and limiting view on the role of the nurse as functionary) but in many countries the advent of postgraduate and PhD level nursing qualifications and ever increasing specialisation mean the traditional image of "nurse" as someone who mops your brow is increasingly far from the reality. We have care staff who do that stuff.

I'm a nurse, I have three degrees and am currently completing a fourth, one which has higher entry requirements than a medical degree offered at the same institution. I can structure and carry out empirical research, run the statistics and publish it, I can assess an offender with psychiatric issues and advise a judge as to their risks independently of a psychiatrist. I have a background in the scientific technique from a previous career in academia and am regularly expected to make use of those skills. I can recommend and undertake courses of cognitive therapy, I've taken operational control of secure hospital sites and have dealings with numerous public bodies to manage risks posed by my patients on discharge. One thing I can't do is make a hospital bed, couldn't do it to save my life and not once in my training did anyone ever shown me how.

In the 24th century it seems reasonable to surmise that trend will have continued.