Barney Burman's aliens

[Herbert1]

Has any information or background notes surfaced concerning the aliens created by Barney Burman for Star Trek (2009)? For example concerning "Sal" the bar patron or what species Keenser belongs?

http://trekmovie.com/2010/03/05/exclusive-academy-award-nominee-barney-burman-talks-star-trek-makeup-oscars-sequel-klingons/

 

[F. King Daniel]

Not as far as I know, except a tiny bit of info on the alien from the Kelvin (just the name of some planet in the Beta Quadrant) on a promotional website (which may not even exist anymore). The aliens were really cool.

I'd love the crew to visit Planet Keenser one day, and rather then Ewoks living in forests they're ultra-industrial, all live in skyscrapers and are all six-feet tall...except Keenser.

 

[Pauln6]

They should ban any new aliens in my view and work on modernising and developing the ones they already have. The existence of intelligent life in our universe is going to prove extremely rare. Piling on new race after new race (and we usually only see starfaring races in Trek - there will be many others lower down on the defelopmental scale) is really starting to trouble my suspension of disbelief. Do what Babylon 5 did - compile a 'bible' and feature aliens from there - no more random aliens in the background unless you are using an established name for them or a new species from abroad.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Star Trek has always had new aliens every week, from the get go. I remember reading similar sentiments when Enterprise started, but it didn't stop them - and the STXI aliens are far cooler then the old-skool "useless forehead bumps" variety.

IIRC, going way back to The Making of Star Trek, they had some hokey equation that established (the the Trek universe) that there were millions of alien races in the galaxy. That's enough for any new ones they "reverse continuity" into the 2250's.

That said I would like to see an Andorian, a Xindi Giant Ant and Mr. Arex next film.

 

[Pauln6]

Millions of alien races I might agree with. Millions of humanoid, oxygen-breathing, star-faring, bumpy-headed races I have more of a problem with. As far as I'm concerned we already had an Edoan-type alien on the Kelvin - just one that didn't have 3 arms - like northern and southern trill

The most recent science now postulates that finding rocky planets in a star's habitable zone (even taking into account races with varying tolerence to temperature and radiation extremes) is actually going to be a lot rarer than first thought. Further, the timescale for life developing depends on when the star formed and when the planet formed so, given the age of the universe, there is actually a very, very limited window for a star-faring race to develop (albeit based on current science). At least Trek has an in-universe explanation in the form of Trek's 'First Ones' (the Preservers or whatever name you prefer).

I'd prefer the make-up and cgi people to go to town on making established races look interesting and cool rather than just inventing yet another race. Blimey we have dozens of races they could work on for Federation members alone (arcturian, andorian, edoan, caitian, deltan, betelgeusian, rhaandarite, saurian, tellarite, betazoid, trill, bajoran, efrosian, zaranite, rigellian, k'tarian, bolian, benzite etc.). I'd love to see some of the TMP aliens milling around - the zaranites with their breathing apperatus and a cgi betelgeusian could be fun but I agree that andorians are a must see. If betazoids really looked like the woman with the wooden head I might actually start to like them.

 

[M'Sharak]

Millions of alien races I might agree with. Millions of humanoid, oxygen-breathing, star-faring, bumpy-headed races I have more of a problem with. As far as I'm concerned we already had an Edoan-type alien on the Kelvin - just one that didn't have 3 arms - like northern and southern trill

While there's nothing in the movie which contradicts that assumption, one of the filmmakers did say that Alnschloss K'Bentayr and Arex were not of the same race, in his opinion (though he admitted that the designer might have other ideas on the subject.) While that race was not named, K'Bentayr's homeworld was given as the Beta Quadrant planet Moncheske in the material which appeared on the viral "boldlygoIntel" / StarfleetShipyard website (now dismantled.)

 

[Pauln6]

Millions of alien races I might agree with. Millions of humanoid, oxygen-breathing, star-faring, bumpy-headed races I have more of a problem with. As far as I'm concerned we already had an Edoan-type alien on the Kelvin - just one that didn't have 3 arms - like northern and southern trill

While there's nothing in the movie which contradicts that assumption, one of the filmmakers did say that Alnschloss K'Bentayr and Arex were not of the same race, in his opinion (though he admitted that the designer might have other ideas on the subject.) While that race was not named, K'Bentayr's homeworld was given as the Beta Quadrant planet Moncheske in the material which appeared on the viral "boldlygoIntel" / StarfleetShipyard website (now dismantled.)

Hmm - probably the same people that gave us rigellians as giant cavemen (TOS), humanoid turtles (TMP), proto-vulcans (TNG), and lizardy humanoids (STO - albeit spelled with one 'l').

I wonder how much of it is the inability to use Google and how much is related to copyright.

 

[Therin of Andor]

As far as I'm concerned we already had an Edoan-type alien on the Kelvin - just one that didn't have 3 arms - like northern and southern trill

The Kelvin alien looked nothing like an Edoan. Edoans have orange skin, no visible ears, three arms and three dog-shaped legs.

If anything, Barney Burman Kelvin alien resembled several different pointy-eared aliens made by Burman family (ie. Tom and Barney) for the UFP Council scenes in ST IV!

II'd love to see some of the TMP aliens milling around

You realise that most TMP aliens, as cool as they were, were not made to be featured characters. That most were over-the-head latex masks with no capacity for mouth movement (or dialogue).

I agree that andorians are a must see.

Well, each time we've seen Andorians (TOS, TMP, ST IV, TNG, ENT), they've undergone quite radical changes, to "show off" new advances in theatrical makeup and miniaturization of electronics. What innovative things could they do with ENT Andorians? What challenge is there for the new movies' makeup guys to reinvent Andorians (again) at the present time?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Hmm - probably the same people that gave us rigellians as giant cavemen (TOS), humanoid turtles (TMP), proto-vulcans (TNG), and lizardy humanoids (STO - albeit spelled with one 'l').

Ummm. The idea that the Rigel Colonies were a cauldron of bizarre alien races, all cohabiting the same solar system, dates back to TOS and Bantam's "ST Maps" publication of 1980. Also Stan & Fred Goldstein's "ST Spaceflight Chronology" (Pocket/Wallaby, 1980).

What made ENT's "Broken Bow" so cool was that Rigel was depicted accurately: a cauldron of bizarre alien races, all cohabiting the same solar system.

I wonder how much of it is the inability to use Google and how much is related to copyright.

What copyright? CBS/Paramount own all of their own aliens, and can reuse them whenever they like - but new SPFX makeup guys want to showcase their own talents and imaginations, not replicate others' efforts. No one's going to win an Emmy or an Oscar today for aliens designed in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s.

 

[Pauln6]

Lol! Don't be racist - not every Edoan has to look exactly like Arex! Fans invented four sexes for the andorians to explain the differences in make-up between the various series and movies, which I thought was imaginative and sweet. And didn't TAS have blue-skinned orions?

I did like the notion that the Xindi world was home to more than one intelligent species, not all of whom were humanoid so I'm not averse to races being from one or more planets in the same system. However, I don't think thay any of the stories involving rigellians or rigelians give that impression. I would be interested to know how the fans reconciled this (two of the species were pre-industrial and the Enterprise got involved in some kind of war with one of them in the Cage).

I do understand that we're dealing with giving the artists and writers the freedom to flex their imaginations vs asking them to flex their imagnations within defined parameters. It's just my personal preference to see established races dveloped. Certainly, I really enjoyed Enterprise's final season when tehy finally started to acknowledge the TOS races and develop them. I do realise that the TMP races were meant to be visually striking rather than practical but with modern make-up and cgi some of them would make very interesting additions even if just as background engineers or security guards.

They don't need to change the andorians again in my view. I'm not even that bothered about moving antennae personally but I suppose on a movie budget cgi antennae will be a lot cheaper to produce than two jumbo monsters.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Lol! Don't be racist - not every Edoan has to look exactly like Arex!

Sigh. Hey, you're the one trying to shoehorn a two-armed, two-legged, eared alien to be the same species as Arex. As I said, there are at least two Burman aliens in ST IV with more attributes in common with their Kelvin alien.

Fans invented four sexes for the andorians to explain the differences in make-up between the various series and movies

Not the fans. It was the post-DS9 TV series novelists. Based on Data's cryptic line in "Data's Day" concerning four partners in an Andorian marriage.

The fan solution (by Leslie Fish in the 70s) was three Andorian genders:
http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/2009/09/summary-of-physiological-roots-of.html

In my own fanfics, in the early 80s, I had two sub-species to attempt to explain the TOS/TMP differences.

And didn't TAS have blue-skinned orions?

Yep, explained as reactions of melanin in the FASA roleplaying game manuals. But the producer of TAS was also colourblind, hence pink kzinti spacesuits, blue Orions and grey Andorians.

However, I don't think thay any of the stories involving rigellians or rigelians give that impression.

Obviously you haven't read the "ST Spaceflight Chronology" or "ST Maps", both of which addressed the multi-racial Rigel Colonies. We also saw the human miners of "Mudd's Women" in TOS.

I would be interested to know how the fans reconciled this (two of the species were pre-industrial and the Enterprise got involved in some kind of war with one of them in the Cage).

Ah, that is explained by the guy who wrote "ST Star Charts". The Rigel Colonies' star, Beta Rigel ("Broken Bow", ENT), should not be confused with the "true" and very distant Rigel (Beta Orionis A), the seventh planet of which is home to the Kaylar ("The Cage", TOS). Remember that "The Cage" infers the ship had a loooong voyage back after fighting the Kaylar.

The term "rigel", IIRC, means "tail" so many constellations can have a "rigel".

Similarly, Deneb Kaitos, the star of Deneb II and V, should not be confused with the "true" Deneb (Alpha Cygni), the fourth planet of which is home to the Bandi and the location of Farpoint Station.

It's just my personal preference to see established races dveloped

Check out the novel "Ex Machina" by Christopher L Bennett, a sequel to ST:TMP, which uses most of the TMP aliens. And more appear in his "Titan" title.

 

[Pauln6]

Lol! Don't be racist - not every Edoan has to look exactly like Arex!

Sigh. Hey, you're the one trying to shoehorn a two-armed, two-legged, eared alien to be the same species as Arex. As I said, there are at least two Burman aliens in ST IV with more attributes in common with their Kelvin alien.

Obviously you haven't read the "ST Spaceflight Chronology" or "ST Maps", both of which addressed the multi-racial Rigel Colonies. We also saw the human miners of "Mudd's Women" in TOS.

The Rigel Colonies' star, Beta Rigel ("Broken Bow", ENT), should not be confused with the "true" and very distant Rigel (Beta Orionis A), the seventh planet of which is home to the Kaylar ("The Cage", TOS). Remember that "The Cage" infers the ship had a loooong voyage back after fighting the Kaylar.

The term "rigel", IIRC, means "tail" so many constellations can have a "rigel".

Similarly, Deneb Kaitos, the star of Deneb II and V, should not be confused with the "true" Deneb (Alpha Cygni), the fourth planet of which is home to the Bandi and the location of Farpoint Station.

Thanks for the info! I do recall the kasheeta in STIV - but they looked more like lizardy kangaroos... I agree, it's inevitable that if we're talking a million inhabited star systems the identifying latin phrases and numbers are going to crop up more than once and nobody is going to say they are Beta Rigel three-six-five nine-ians. So yeah, I am being a tad facetious in my criticism. Maybe the Borg had the right idea...

I understand Trek's obsession with (often human-like) aliens of the week functioning as cyphers or allegories for society's ills was largely budget related. I suppose I just feel that much of the section of the modern audience that is actually paying attention to the allegories instead of just the action and special effects doesn't want the allegories to be heavy-handed one-shot wonders any more. Battlestar Galactica managed to string out various allegories for four years quite successfully and focused on just two species. Trek's episodic nature became one of its weaknesses towards the end but equally, modern dramas that make the story too intertwined and complex (Flashforward, Defying Gravity) suffer because casual viewers won't bother. Deep Space Nine's more concentrated focus also worked well and Lost has just about grasped the right mix.

I am teasing a bit though - a head shot of the alien in NuTrek looks enough like an Edoan to pass as one on a character sheet for a trek role playing game. I play Dungeons & Dragons too and we use random tables a lot. They could use their imaginations to design a list of 50 'established' races and then roll randomly to see which one features in the allegory or even ini the background of a scene. Before long they'd have front-runners that the fans loved to see over again (e.g. Morn). Or maybe just to see Riker dressed in feathers again...

So I do like the aliens in NuTrek; they look really cool. However, I want to see them used again, or other aliens re-used, instead of seeing a whole different buch next time round. It's not as if the franchise is looking to make action figures out of every background character after all...

Ex Machina was great fun! Re-used TOS aliens as well as TMP and the allegory was an interesting and well presented one. Christopher even spent a bit of time focusing in the differing alien mentalities of the different species. A good effort.

 

[Therin of Andor]

As I said, there are at least two Burman aliens in ST IV with more attributes in common with their Kelvin alien.

I was thinking these two, both with long pointed ears and/or chins like the Kelvin alien:

a head shot of the alien in NuTrek looks enough like an Edoan to pass as one on a character sheet for a trek role playing game.

Sure, but Arex's body is more like Species 8472 than a Monchezkean:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~lindsay96/temp/Species8472.jpg

Ex Machina was great fun! Re-used TOS aliens as well as TMP and the allegory was an interesting and well presented one. Christopher even spent a bit of time focusing in the differing alien mentalities of the different species. A good effort.

And Shantherin th'Clane, the Andorian, was named for me.

V

 

[Pauln6]

As I said, there are at least two Burman aliens in ST IV with more attributes in common with their Kelvin alien.

I was thinking these two, both with long pointed ears and/or chins like the Kelvin alien:

a head shot of the alien in NuTrek looks enough like an Edoan to pass as one on a character sheet for a trek role playing game.

Sure, but Arex's body is more like Species 8472 than a Monchezkean:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~lindsay96/temp/Species8472.jpg

Ex Machina was great fun! Re-used TOS aliens as well as TMP and the allegory was an interesting and well presented one. Christopher even spent a bit of time focusing in the differing alien mentalities of the different species. A good effort.

And Shantherin th'Clane, the Andorian, was named for me.

V

Groovy pics (number two is a good fit actually!) but I'd be happy for any of these to be re-used and developed too. They shoud put a cap on it instead of making even more. At the moment we have the Federation which consists of all these random aliens and then the Romulans and Klingons who one subject race between them (the Remans).

Therin already has a pic and excel character sheet ready for use in Thousand Suns I managed to scrape together 3 andorian males from the Rec Deck and photoshopped Suzie Plakson for Themon. Sad, I know.

 

[Sabataage]

Its funny, while I love the extreme scifi aliens that populated the original Star Wars and hated the bumpy foreheads that crowded TNG, I really like the rainbow colored humanoids from TOS. The green Orions, the blue Andorians, the black and white Cherons. There was a golden skinned species in there too. Even Spock was meant, at one time, to have red skin.

Really that's the mixture I'd want to see. I'd love to have the campy aliens from TOS made with the budget of a 1960's TV show standing side-by-side with the most out there bizarre Lovecraftian inspired starfish alien.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'd love to have the campy aliens from TOS made with the budget of a 1960's TV show standing side-by-side with the most out there bizarre Lovecraftian inspired starfish alien.

And that would be ST VI. The makeup artists deliberate put blue, mauve, yellow, orange and gold humanoid aliens in the crowd scene at the end as a homage to the colourful humanoids of TOS.

JJ Abrams also dotted his Academy audience with green and blue aliens among them more bizarre creatures.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Bzzit Khaht of Althos IV; Ariolan of Fillandia. (FASA's ST IV Sourcebook for their RPG).