Bajoran Comfort Women (Wrongs Darker than Death or Night)

[Dingo]

I just watched the episode in parenthesis last night and found it to be especially poignant. First of all for Kira Nerys, because she learned Dukat wasn't lying. Then obviously for Kira Meru having been torn away from her husband and children and her confliction at being in love with Dukat and missing Taban very badly (Leslie Hope did a great job with that, IMHO).

Being Filipino in descent, yet living in the US, I couldn't help but notice the parallels to our history in that episode and have them be especially poignant for me in both storytelling and in the history of my own race. I frequently read how the issue of comfort women is still a hot topic even sixty years after World War II in our expatriate newspapers.

As the grandson of a Filipino resistance fighter, I can say my Grandfather never targeted them the way the resistance did. And in fact quite a few of our people express sympathy for these women with the outcry at the Japanese attempts to deny such incidents occured.

I wonder why the Resistance viewed the comfort women as collaborators? It was obvious people like Basso Tromac should have been the targets, not innocent women dragged from husbands and families like the comfort women. Why focus hatred on women dragged from their homes when the hate should have been focused on men like Tromac. I hope his balls were cut off post the Occupation, if he even had them to begin with.

Any speculation why fellow Bajorans didn't view comfort women as fellow sufferers, who if you really look at it suffered just as much as they did (emotional and physical abuse, STDs, post-traumatic stress disorder for the luckier ones, and the very real fear of being thrown into labor camps)?

Regards,

Dingo

 

[Timo]

One might assume sheer pragmatism: spitting on a comfort woman might get you a whipping, but spitting on an actual Cardassian occupier would get you skinned alive...

Really, actions against either the comfort women or the occupation forces would be largely symbolic anyway. There'd be very little the resistance could achieve tactically against an occupier that controlled the planet from an orbital fortress - but psychologically, killing six of Dukat's bedmates in a row would be as good a way of "reaching him" as, say, burning his flitter or spray-painting a hate message on the wall of a warehouse overlooking his surface residence.

The status of the women described (perhaps inaccurately) in this pseudo-flashback episode did not seem much like that of the real comfort women referred to in recent history books, though. It wasn't used as an euphemism for forced prostitution, but as a designation for fairly well-treated "purchased brides" and seeming volunteer lovers/concubines alike. Hatred towards them could then be explained simply by the fact that, while at least the former were victims of coersion, all lived lives of relative luxury and safety, arousing deep jealousy.

When analyzing the issues of "justification", one has to ponder when and whether collaboration is a negative thing. Did the Bajorans who refused to collaborate feel that they were fighting for the survival of their species? Probalby not, as the occupation force wasn't into genocide, but into subjugation and slavery instead (indeed, a whole episode was dedicated to a Cardassian who desperately tried to lie that his people had had genocidal tendencies, and nobody believed him in the end). Did they believe they were fighting for the survival of their culture, then? More probably, yes - but in the end, they failed and shot themselves in the foot, as the resistance was as great an engine of change in that culture as the occupation itself had been. Objectively thinking, then, it's not that easy to see why being a resistance fighter would have been better for Bajor than being a collaborator. In situations like that, surrender often is a great way to win the fight - a viewpoint that is lost to those who envy the victory of those who surrendered.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dingo]

In situations like that, surrender often is a great way to win the fight - a viewpoint that is lost to those who envy the victory of those who surrendered.

I must respectfully disagree. It is far better to die fighting for your civilization with your last breath, last bullet, last anything, than capitulate to slavery and subjugation!

It wasn't used as an euphemism for forced prostitution, but as a designation for fairly well-treated "purchased brides" and seeming volunteer lovers/concubines alike. Hatred towards them could then be explained simply by the fact that, while at least the former were victims of coersion, all lived lives of relative luxury and safety, arousing deep jealousy.

You're saying they weren't coerced? Did you see the Cardassians drag them from their families? Like they did with Kira Meru and at least one other woman? We never saw just how many Cardassian 'johns' these women had to service through the night. I mean what if Kira Meru were lucky, in a sense, that she only had to worry about sating Dukat vice any of his other cronies.

Really, actions against either the comfort women or the occupation forces would be largely symbolic anyway.

Successful insurgencies rarely are militarily effective, they tend to just be persistent and turn into contests of will, who can stay longer. The Cardassians capitulated in a sense because they started negotiating. Shakaar's adjutant in 'Crossfire' mentioned that very succinctly, when the Cardassians started negotiating, the Bajorans knew they'd won.

Dingo

 

[Timo]

I must respectfully disagree. It is far better to die fighting for your civilization with your last breath, last bullet, last anything, than capitulate to slavery and subjugation!

That is a common take on the issue, yes. Then again, the side that capitulates does a better job at protecting said civilization than the side that dies fighting and achieves nothing...

And while armed resistance undermines the defensive work done by collaborators, collaboration as such does not necessarily undermine armed resistance. So collaborators would have a more legitimate reason to hate resisters than vice versa, really.

"She married a man who killed all my cousins!" is a valid yell of rage. But so is "He blew up a truck carrying the friends of the man I married!". And the latter offense is IMHO far more severe and irredeemable - if the former indeed is an offense at all, rather than a shrewd military maneuver almost guaranteed to bring success.

I mean what if Kira Meru were lucky, in a sense, that she only had to worry about sating Dukat vice any of his other cronies.

That is the significant question, now isn't it? Television sensibilities would not have allowed a realistic portrayal of military prostitution, so what we were shown was limited to a fairly "civilized" practice. Moreover, obviously only high-ranking officers were being provided with these women on this occasion - the logistics of bringing them up to the orbital fortress would have made little sense if the women were intended for the troops. So one might assume that each one from this group (eventually) ended up becoming the mistress of an officer, rather than a true comfort woman in the WWII sense of the word.

Whether Cardassians practiced military prostitution of other sorts elsewhere and at other times is open to pure speculation. This example only proves that a Cardassian man might feel lustful towards a Bajoran woman the classic way a human male soldier would want to have a human female to toy with - and not, say, in some narrower sense of the Cardassian wanting to torture a sapient animal for his amusement or something. So it might suggest that troops down below might be offered similar services to keep them satisfied. Yet this is never mentioned, not even in the context of this episode which would well have served as the necessary vehicle.

The Cardassians capitulated in a sense because they started negotiating. Shakaar's adjutant in 'Crossfire' mentioned that very succinctly, when the Cardassians started negotiating, the Bajorans knew they'd won.

In this respect, it would be interesting to learn when exactly the negotiations started. The actual withdrawal seems to have been well founded in all sorts of external reasons - humiliating loss of face for the Central Command at Minos Korva in "Chain of Command", related Starfleet pressure on Cardassia in general, running out of things to exploit on Bajor, and so forth. Did these negotiations start right before the Cardassians withdrew? Or before this turn of events?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Marie1]

I don't think a woman that punched people would be thought of as having comfort woman potential in the Cardassian definition... by that I mean, it seems like women who aggressively resisted Cardassians probably wouldn't have been risked. That whole thing reeked of creepy-ness...

My problem with Meru is that she died 2 years before Kira found out, didn't she? So the Occupation was over for... say 4 years? If so, why did it take her so long to go back to her family?

I'm not advocating prostitution and the like in any case, but Meru's behaviour was bizarre, and that episode, since they had all that time- why bother informing Dukat? Why not free her mother by stepping out in the hall, and letting Dukat fry?

 

[ZMistress]

My problem with Meru is that she died 2 years before Kira found out, didn't she? So the Occupation was over for... say 4 years? If so, why did it take her so long to go back to her family?

Huh? Where did you hear that? It was stated that she died 7 years after meeting Dukat, so it happened when Nerys was still a kid.

 

[Dingo]

In this respect, it would be interesting to learn when exactly the negotiations started. The actual withdrawal seems to have been well founded in all sorts of external reasons - humiliating loss of face for the Central Command at Minos Korva in "Chain of Command", related Starfleet pressure on Cardassia in general, running out of things to exploit on Bajor, and so forth. Did these negotiations start right before the Cardassians withdrew? Or before this turn of events?

Well, real life insurgencies will prove this out. In the case of Chechnya, the Russians pummeled cities such as Grozny to the ground, but the Chechens still fought them and forced a Russian withdrawal. In the case of Afghanistan from 1979-1989 the Soviets were a militarily superior force (like the Cardassians) and the Afghan Mujahideen (like the Bajorans), the Mujahideen kept fighting until the Soviets got fed up and left Afghanistan, thereby inflicting the proverbial 'death of a thousand cuts'.

That is a common take on the issue, yes. Then again, the side that capitulates does a better job at protecting said civilization than the side that dies fighting and achieves nothing...

Principally I must disagree. Is it better for a civilization to exist subjugated? No. It is far better to die resisting than to live a slave.

 

[Marie1]

My problem with Meru is that she died 2 years before Kira found out, didn't she? So the Occupation was over for... say 4 years? If so, why did it take her so long to go back to her family?

Huh? Where did you hear that? It was stated that she died 7 years after meeting Dukat, so it happened when Nerys was still a kid.

You are correct... I thought when I watched it the last time that she died later...

I do understand Kira's conflict though...

 

[SolkaTruesilver]

Principally I must disagree. Is it better for a civilization to exist subjugated? No. It is far better to die resisting than to live a slave.

That's nicely said, in theory. But don't make claims of what you really think until you will be allowed to actually make that choice. Many peoples have accepted to live as occupied people and survived as a culture (like mine), and fighting to the death 300 years ago wouldn't have helped.

 

[Timo]

Indeed, it could be argued that those choosing hopeless resistance are working for the enemy, while those collaborating are working against the enemy.

Assuming that the goal of the enemy is to destroy your culture, that is; and the typical enemy is not thus predisposed, despite the usual propaganda. Crusades for or against entire cultures or lifestyles have only become fashionable since WWII, which was largely justified as such an action by all parties involved, even when in practice none of the parties had such goals, and were almost purely interested in control of territory or resources.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Deckerd]

I wonder why the Resistance viewed the comfort women as collaborators? It was obvious people like Basso Tromac should have been the targets, not innocent women dragged from husbands and families like the comfort women. Why focus hatred on women dragged from their homes when the hate should have been focused on men like Tromac. I hope his balls were cut off post the Occupation, if he even had them to begin with.

Any speculation why fellow Bajorans didn't view comfort women as fellow sufferers, who if you really look at it suffered just as much as they did (emotional and physical abuse, STDs, post-traumatic stress disorder for the luckier ones, and the very real fear of being thrown into labor camps)?

If you look at the experience of the Norwegians during the Second World War there is an interesting parallel. The German government viewed Norwegians as good breeding stock since they were the correct blonde Nordic type. Therefore the German army were instructed to impregnate Norwegian women as an act of patriotism. Most of these women were in love and perhaps some of the soldiers were too but they were also doing their duty. After the war the backlash was terrible. The women were publicly vilified and humiliated, and the vengeance meted out on their children was every bit as bad as the eugenics promoted by the Nazis. Many were shut up in asylums for the rest of their lives. It was a shameful episode which is still casting a shadow to this day.

In this respect the writers were spot-on as regards the reaction of the Bajorans to the comfort women.

 

[Dingo]

If you look at the experience of the Norwegians during the Second World War there is an interesting parallel. The German government viewed Norwegians as good breeding stock since they were the correct blonde Nordic type. Therefore the German army were instructed to impregnate Norwegian women as an act of patriotism. Most of these women were in love and perhaps some of the soldiers were too but they were also doing their duty. After the war the backlash was terrible. The women were publicly vilified and humiliated, and the vengeance meted out on their children was every bit as bad as the eugenics promoted by the Nazis. Many were shut up in asylums for the rest of their lives. It was a shameful episode which is still casting a shadow to this day.

I never thought of that particular tangent, so well done. At any rate, I liked this episode because it drew attention to and gave the Occupation some more screen time, this time from another class of slaves.

I guess I didn't look at it from that viewpoint because whenever I hear comfort women, I think automatically of women from all over the Pacific abducted to serve as sex slaves for the Japanese Army at various remote outposts.

 

[TedShatner10]

The Norwegian mistreatment of half-German (or just half-foreign) children just highlights their own hang ups instead of the crimes of their occupiers. We (Britain) had loads of half-German (and the like) children and we never systematically persecuted them like the Norwegian xenophobes did (who like the Koreans suffered a relatively mild occupation).

 

[SoM]

Well, the Bajorans were shown throughout DS9 to have deep, deep "hang-ups" in respect of the Cardassians...

[Duet being one of the best examples, where Kira gradually gets worn down as they discover more and more, eventually letting Marritza go after finding out he was innocent, suffering from PTSD himself and trying to embarrass his own people into admitting they did wrong... only for a Bajoran to stab him to death on the Promenade because "He's a Cardassian. That's reason enough."]

 

[Dingo]

[Duet being one of the best examples, where Kira gradually gets worn down as they discover more and more, eventually letting Marritza go after finding out he was innocent, suffering from PTSD himself and trying to embarrass his own people into admitting they did wrong... only for a Bajoran to stab him to death on the Promenade because "He's a Cardassian. That's reason enough."]

At the risk of going off topic, I'll say that's why I respect Kira Nerys as a character. She went from being a volatile and angry individual in Season One to a deeper more complex character as the series progressed. It's interestesting to see the evolution of Kira as the series progressed, I think.

Episodes like Duet, Indiscretion, Return to Grace, and Wrongs Darker than Death or Night definitely are big insights into her as a character and I thought Nana Visitor did an excellent job portraying that metamorphosis from perpetually angry woman to something I can't quite define, but different...

 

[ZMistress]

Episodes like Duet, Indiscretion, Return to Grace, and Wrongs Darker than Death or Night definitely are big insights into her as a character and I thought Nana Visitor did an excellent job portraying that metamorphosis from perpetually angry woman to something I can't quite define, but different...

I totally agree but I'd also add Second Skin and Ties of Blood and Water to that list. I loved how she was able to recignize the good in a Cardassian and love him like a father.

It made it so much more painful when she returned to that "They are all guilty" mentality in The Darkness and the Light but I'd blame that on inconsistent writing and not on Nana Visitor's acting capabilities.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Episodes like Duet, Indiscretion, Return to Grace, and Wrongs Darker than Death or Night definitely are big insights into her as a character and I thought Nana Visitor did an excellent job portraying that metamorphosis from perpetually angry woman to something I can't quite define, but different...

I totally agree but I'd also add Second Skin and Ties of Blood and Water to that list. I loved how she was able to recignize the good in a Cardassian and love him like a father.

It made it so much more painful when she returned to that "They are all guilty" mentality in The Darkness and the Light but I'd blame that on inconsistent writing and not on Nana Visitor's acting capabilities.

That was actually right before "Ties."

And even in "Ties of Blood and Water," the fact that she would use that old attitude to keep from having to deal with the fact that she was losing her "godfather"...I wouldn't say it was so inconsistent, sadly enough. At least she came around in the end, but I would've REALLY slapped her silly for the horrible way she acted, for awhile.

 

[Anwar]

Funny how the Cardassians are the source of such great debate in Trek even after all these years. Kudos to the writers who invented them and used them so well in TNG and DS9.

 

[TedShatner10]

Well, the Bajorans were shown throughout DS9 to have deep, deep "hang-ups" in respect of the Cardassians...

I understand, but hints of Bajorans getting irrationally resentful of their women folk who became officer's concubines or barrack rape toys against their will is too reminiscant of the more unenlightened ME cultures that condone the murder of rape victims. But at the same time Kira's mother was well treated by Dukat and she was living in luxuious quarters while millions of Bajorans were dying in walled in ghettos and slave camps, I can relate to the resentment towards taht, however that was only one example (I imagine most Bajoran comfort women met sticky endings).

 

[Anwar]

Well, you never know. Maybe they realized that some of them WEREN'T that well treated and got re-accepted back into Bajoran society. Thing is, we were only really exposed to the ones who were more like the pets/concubines of the higher-up Cardassians (Kira's mom). There had to have been Comfort women who were little more than love/sex slaves with no benefits, or hostages kept around to be raped every so often. It's a rather touchy and disturbing concept so I can see why it wasn't fully explored to that extent.