Back to the Future? Spock's Fate in the Past

[Mr. Crane]

I'm sure this has probably been asked by someone before, but why doesn't "Original Spock" just use time travel (as he knows several methods from TOS and ST IV to do so) to go either backwards or forwards in time to stop Nero from changing the timeline? His decision to just "stay put" in the past seemed a bit odd to me, when he knows how to travel through time (Guardian of Forever, Slinghot, even the portal from "All Our Yesterdays" would still be around...) - even if he has travelled to an alternate universe (if so, is he even aware of this?), his and Nero's arrival in the past had a major impact on the lives of the people of this reality (especially the Vulcans ) - would he not feel obliged to try to repair the damage and restore the timeline as much as he could?

Also, if we go with this idea that some fans are arguing, that this is an alternate universe from the original series, does "Spock Prime" realize that he has travelled back in time in an alternate universe, not his own? In that case, wouldn't he realize that Vulcan is alive and well in his own universe? In the TNG episode, "Parallels", didn't they come up with a method of detecting each realities unique quantum signature to determine which universe each Worf was from, and didn't they discover a way to return him to his own reality? Would "Spock Prime" know this method to return to his own reality/time?

Just some speculative questions to ponder and debate...

The first issue of the Nero comics, and indeed Nero's comments in the movie, seem to indicate he believes he is in the past of his own universe, that this is not some sort of parallel universe...

 

[shapeshifter]

In Universe: He has accepted his circumstances as the Will of Destinty and will make the best of the lemons he has been handed.

Reality: It's a reboot. The rules have changed. You must unlearn what you have learned.

 

[barnaclelapse]

While still remembering it in case they want to reference it.

Heh.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Also, if we go with this idea that some fans are arguing, that this is an alternate universe from the original series, does "Spock Prime" realize that he has travelled back in time in an alternate universe, not his own? In that case, wouldn't he realize that Vulcan is alive and well in his own universe? In the TNG episode, "Parallels", didn't they come up with a method of detecting each realities unique quantum signature to determine which universe each Worf was from, and didn't they discover a way to return him to his own reality? Would "Spock Prime" know this method to return to his own reality/time?

I think he'll figure out that he's in an alternate universe/timeline, eventually.

But...I think Countdown makes clear that he never expected to return.
It's possible--highly probable, in fact--that he'll decide, out of duty, to stay with the Vulcan Refugees, and live out the rest of his days there.

"The needs of the many..." and all that.

 

[Shazam!]

Reality: It's a reboot.

I wish.

 

[darkshadow0001]

I'm sure this has probably been asked by someone before, but why doesn't "Original Spock" just use time travel (as he knows several methods from TOS and ST IV to do so) to go either backwards or forwards in time to stop Nero from changing the timeline? His decision to just "stay put" in the past seemed a bit odd to me, when he knows how to travel through time (Guardian of Forever, Slinghot, even the portal from "All Our Yesterdays" would still be around...) - even if he has travelled to an alternate universe (if so, is he even aware of this?), his and Nero's arrival in the past had a major impact on the lives of the people of this reality (especially the Vulcans ) - would he not feel obliged to try to repair the damage and restore the timeline as much as he could?

Also, if we go with this idea that some fans are arguing, that this is an alternate universe from the original series, does "Spock Prime" realize that he has travelled back in time in an alternate universe, not his own? In that case, wouldn't he realize that Vulcan is alive and well in his own universe? In the TNG episode, "Parallels", didn't they come up with a method of detecting each realities unique quantum signature to determine which universe each Worf was from, and didn't they discover a way to return him to his own reality? Would "Spock Prime" know this method to return to his own reality/time?

Just some speculative questions to ponder and debate...

The first issue of the Nero comics, and indeed Nero's comments in the movie, seem to indicate he believes he is in the past of his own universe, that this is not some sort of parallel universe...

I don't think it would be possible to go back to his future. This is a new reality, and I think the only possible way he could get back to his own time is if he goes through the same type of anomaly that brought him here in the first place. And that's even complicated in itself, since there was a 25-year time difference that both Spock & Nero arrived at. If Spock just slingshot's around the sun like they did in Star Trek IV, he would only travel to the future of THIS reality. I think the only way he could even attempt to return is either through another black hole of the same anomaly or through an Iconian Gateway if there is one stationed somewhere in the 23rd Century. That could be a possiblity.

 

[Shazam!]

the only possible way he could get back to his own time is if he goes through the same type of anomaly that brought him here in the first place. And that's even complicated in itself, since there was a 25-year time difference that both Spock & Nero arrived at.

And also we have no idea if it will destroy things or send things back in time. It's kinda random like that because it doesn't seem to matter how you use it, one of those two things will occur.

Brilliant.

 

[Scout101]

This one doesn't seem complicated, it's just a mixture of the writers not WANTING to fix things, and people trying to justify that decision in-universe.

Spock knows of, and has used, probably half a dozen ways to travel through time. This is an easy problem to fix. I mean, if I can think of it, a vulcan super-genius that has had practical experience with time travel should be ok, right?

All Spock would have had to do is travel back to the point Nero entered the "new" timeline, and destroy the ship. Drop him back into the same plot hole he fell out of, and problem solved. If he accomplishes that, there aren't any changes to the timeline from the Prime timeline, and everything returns to normal. Worst case, George Kirk makes a log entry about a lightning storm and explosion that wasn't in the original timeline, but everything else goes on as before.

If Spock survives the destruction of Nero, he can then travel forward in time back to the post-TNG timeframe he came from. If he dies, well, he died fixing things, so close enough there.

Such an easy problem to fix, only reason it didn't happen is because "breaking" the timeline and leaving it broken was the POINT of the movie, so the writers could borrow and steal at random from past Trek stories without being tied to having to do things a certain way...

 

[Shazam!]

The plot of the new Star Trek film is actually one of the most mental things I've ever seen in a film. I really wish it had been a full on reboot with NO TIES WHATSOEVER with what had come before.

What's the point of preserving the original time-line if there are no new TV shows or movies in the works outside of the new Trek universe? It just seems demented.

 

[Rackon]

I'm sure Spock Prime realizes he's in an alternative universe/time line. It would have been apparent to him very sson after the main events portrayed in the film.

No, he's not going to go back to his original universe/timeline - not even if he could.

For one thing, as related in Countdown, he didn't expect to return from the mission to save Romulus and the Galaxy in the first place. In the second place, in that reality, the great work of the last third of his life - reunification - is a moot point with Romulus and Remus, the Rihannsu home worlds destroyed.

Secondly, in the alternate universe he's now living in, he has renewed purpose - he can use his life's knowledge in the rebuilding of Vulcan civlization on the new colony world.

I doubt Spock would return if he could. The alternate world needs him more.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^Exactly.

 

[darkshadow0001]

The plot of the new Star Trek film is actually one of the most mental things I've ever seen in a film. I really wish it had been a full on reboot with NO TIES WHATSOEVER with what had come before.

What's the point of preserving the original time-line if there are no new TV shows or movies in the works outside of the new Trek universe? It just seems demented.

Actually, I'm kind of glad it did have ties with the original time-line, because it explained a lot of differentalities that I had between this movie and from what we knew. It explains why things are different-- alot, and I've come to except it.

 

[thumbtack]

What's the point of preserving the original time-line?

To appease the whiners? They can still have their novels, after all.

 

[Shazam!]

To appease the whiners? They can still have their novels, after all.

Well that's basically my point.

 

[Scout101]

It's understood why, from OUR perspective, Spock didn't repair the timeline, just arguing that from an in-universe perspective, it doesn't make much sense, as Spock has done very similar things several times over his career...

 

[Tralah]

Vulcan is destroyed. If Spock used his methods to travel into the future, he'd be traveling into the future of the current timeline he is in with Vulcan still destroyed. Spock would need to find a way to cross over from this new alternate universe that was created by Nero back into the original one. As brilliant as Spock is, I don't think that is something he would be able to pull off. Traveling between different universes has never been super easy in Star Trek, with the exception of those awful DS9 episodes, which we'd be better off forgetting (and I say that as a huge fan of DS9).

 

[Scout101]

All false. Since "back to the future" is in the title of the thread, perhaps watching that part of BTTF: Part 2 would help? Doc explained it to Marty perfectly.

He can't travel to the future and hope for HIS timeline, because he'd be traveling to the future of the timeline he's currently in. What he can do with extreme ease, though, is travel BACK in time. Say, to the point where THIS timeline diverged with HIS timeline. I.E. when Nero appeared near the Kelvin, as I previously mentioned.

If Spock goes back to the point right before Nero arrives, waits for him to show up, and then destroys Nero's ship, timeline restored (or so close as to not matter). Spock is then free to return to his original timeline's future.

Again, I understand from OUR perspective why this didn't happen (new movie franchise), but from an in-universe perspective, it makes zero sense for Spock to not have attempted this. He's done it before, and he also would want to restore Vulcan (and his mother) to existance, having directly caused their demise...

 

[SalvorHardin]

Again, I understand from OUR perspective why this didn't happen (new movie franchise),

Just adding my 2 cents...
this is really all I need at this point and don't really need or care for any in-universe explanations.
Just like I didn't really need in-universe explanations why the Enterprise looks different, why the Kelvin looks more advanced than TOS ships even if it's supposed to be older etc etc etc

 

[Aragorn]

Time travel was too easy in Star Trek. With the ease which they could do it, it became like Adam's/Clarie's blood on Heroes for the easy reset button, especially on Voyager.

 

[davejames]

If Spock goes back to the point right before Nero arrives, waits for him to show up, and then destroys Nero's ship, timeline restored (or so close as to not matter). Spock is then free to return to his original timeline's future.

And, um, how exactly does he destroy Nero's ship? The thing decimated some of the most powerful starships of that time period, and had no trouble fending off a brand-spanking new Enterprise.

And even if Spock DID somehow get ahold of a more powerful ship, he wouldn't have much time to work with. The Narada had barely emerged from the black hole before it was attacking the Kelvin.

Spock probably figured he would cause even more damage if he started meddling around with those events. Plus, from the way Kirk and Spock's paths were already lining up properly to put them on the Enterprise, it was probably obvious that the universe was already correcting itself somehow.

And it's not like the Narada's arrival created some dark new "Mirror Universe" where Starfleet was evil or anything. THAT he might have felt driven to correct. But the essence of this new universe was still very much like the original one.