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Ave Verum Corpus

Danja

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Seven had that song playing in her quarters in "Seventeen Seconds."

It brought me back to my high school choir days when I had to sing it. :scream: It loosely translates as "Hail, True Body" (of Jesus Christ).

Is this the producers' snide commentary on all the changelings running about? :shifty:

Ave verum corpus
Natum de Maria Virgine

Hail, true body
Born of the Virgin Mary.

After thirty years, that's all I can remember! :lol:
 
This is a late reply to a year-old question, but it's also another sneaky Easter egg for 12 Monkeys fans (sorry to keep bringing it up). It was the song used in a pivotal moment in 12M's series finale. I also wonder if it is a reference to Seven being a former Borg. Maybe also a nod to Seven's former mentor, Janeway, who also loves to listen to classical music as mentioned in Counterpoint.

Or, I could just be overthinking it, but maybe Terry or the musical coordinator just like's the song.
 
I know the original post is over a year old and sorry for the long response.

But I recently also noticed this song in that episode (“17 seconds”) when I came across the scene in a video (on you know tube). It is now my favorite scene in all of Trek. I too have a love of chorals, hymns and religious chants/music because I find that (putting the religious implications aside), they affect me on a deep level.

My take on this scene is this…

The song frames the start of the scene where LaForge (and others) are relieved by Shaw to get some rest and LaForge uses the opportunity to immediately go to Seven’s quarters. You hear the first line “Ave verum corpus” as LaForge walks off the bridge and you hear the tubolift door shut.

Cut to Seven’s quarters as it starts with a view of a model of Voyager and then the camera pans over to Seven who is clearly agitated as the second line starts playing “natum de Maria Virgine”.

Those two lines literally translate to
“Hail, true body
born of the Virgin Mary"

This is an old latin Franciscan chant that was set to music, the version playing is by Mozart (personally my favorite composer). It’s root is religious but I believe its meaning here is beyond that.

The scene continues...The chime rings and Seven cancels the music (at the end of the second line, timing is everything). She opens the door. Notice Seven’s body language (body and eyes - something that Jeri Ryan has perfected wonderfully) - her chin is up and a there is a defiant look on her face. LaForge then attempts to express her friendship and support for Seven by comparing herself to her father. Seven crosses her arms, more defiant body language, and blows her off basically indicating it does not sound sincere or particularly relevant (“this sounds rehearsed”).

LaForge, to her credit, digs deeper - Seven if anything is direct and appreciates directness: “...people didn’t think I belonged either.”…watch Seven’s face start to soften (go Jeri go)…LaForge starts talking about how that affected her but then switches to how she and her dad are alike and nails Seven right where she is hurting “we have a hard time making friends but when we do, we know their value”. Cut to Seven’s face again and how soft it has become with some moisture in her eyes and she slightly loosens her jaw (Jeri is so incredible at this). LaForge continues “...Shaw may call you insubordinate for helping yours but my dad wouldn’t”. This hits home and Seven says “Thank you” and “go rest Ensign”. LaForge ends by saying “yes, Commander Seven”. Cut to Seven’s face and she forms a little smile noticing that LaForge said “Seven” (it is significant that LaForge used her preferred name) and then she shakes her head right before she turns back into her room. Perhaps the shake of her head is to acknowledge she has now shaken off much of the agitation and dark feelings.

I recently read the novel Star Trek Picard: Firewall (I definitely recommend it). Then, I went to revisit ST: Picard Seven scenes (on you know tube) since it had a been a bit of time since seeing the ST: Picard series. Reading the book with Seven’s arc starting a couple of years after Voyager gets “home” makes everything in Star Trek Picard involving Seven stand out so much more.

Connecting and making friends is important to Seven. Her “collective” means everything to her. I have always gotten the feeling that she also feels like the most misunderstood person not just in the galaxy but the universe (and that is not necessarily a wrong assessment) because to her it is not about following a set of rules but doing what is right especially for those she cares about (which when you read the book you will see is not limited to just those close to her…her “collective” is getting bigger).

She has been charged with insubordination and confined to quarters for doing just that. I think she is feeling like a bit of a Martyr as well.

To me the start of the scene where LaForge is about the go to Seven’s quarters as the first line plays it is about the fact that Seven, who by the way had the opportunity to live in a fully human body which was then taken back to its “borgness”, has had to learn to accept and love herself as she is (as well as the journey as to what her true value is and where she fits). Ave verum corpus (Hail, true body).

Previously she had had a discussion with Picard how she was “reborn” on Voyager. She was made a new person when severed from the bog collective. natum de Maria Virgine.

So she was playing the music to remind herself of these…basically that she is who she is. Learn to love yourself, accept yourself as you are. Be true to yourself. LaForge showed up and managed to reinforce this.

This is a short but powerful scene and Jeri nails it.

I think Seven is the most significant character Trek has ever done. And I’m quite happy it was a publicity stunt that completely backfired.

And since I don’t know where else to put it here’s my short review of ST Picard: Firewall (long version in progress):

"Exactly what I had hoped for in the story of Seven’s continued life. For all the book’s flaws, they ultimately do not matter. The story appears to have been carefully thought out and just as carefully told in a deliberate manner. Starting with the person Seven was a couple of years after Voyager made it ‘home’ (theirs not hers?), it delves into what it takes to work through all the trauma and pain that life throws at someone and how painful and joyous it can be to do more than just survive but to thrive.

All of which is so very relatable and resonates deeply. There is a reason that when Seven was first introduced into the Trek universe so many ‘queers' adopted her right away and how much it means to those fans that Trek adopted this take on her. However, it really does not matter if Seven is ‘queer' or not, what matters is that she is truly and deeply human. I love her even more now. Ave verum corpus."

Cheers.
 
My take on this scene is this…

The song frames the start of the scene where LaForge (and others) are relieved by Shaw to get some rest and LaForge uses the opportunity to immediately go to Seven’s quarters. You hear the first line “Ave verum corpus” as LaForge walks off the bridge and you hear the tubolift door shut.

Cut to Seven’s quarters as it starts with a view of a model of Voyager and then the camera pans over to Seven who is clearly agitated as the second line starts playing “natum de Maria Virgine”.

Those two lines literally translate to
“Hail, true body
born of the Virgin Mary"

I thought it was a sly commentary on all the Changelings running about the ship (ESPECIALLY in light of a Changeling taking the form of La Forge).

I think Seven is the most significant character Trek has ever done. And I’m quite happy it was a publicity stunt that completely backfired.

Rick Berman underestimated Jeri Ryan.
 
How did it backfire though? She delivered in all the ways they hoped she would.
 
And he got one by all accounts.

If you look at T'Pol on Enterprise, you'll see his original concept for Seven of Nine (He wanted Seven to have a pixie cut just
Iike T'Pol's, but Jeri Ryan refused to cut her hair. Hence, the French braid. FWIW, Jolene Blalock refused to cut HER hair, so she had to wear a wig.)
 
I'm sorry to keep going in circles but...so what?
How does a "Borg babe" who goes on to be generally well crafted and also well received constitute a backfire?
 
Firstly, I will admit that I fired off my “mouth” when I said that statement about backfired and thought I would just let it sit in the ether rather than let my passions drive me some more. Well, my brain wouldn’t shut up.

So, in a word: “Transcendence”.

In many words (sorry for the bullet point form but I still haven’t gotten that out of my system from my work days)...

* Completely destroyed the image and depth of the highly admired lead woman on the show.

This introduced immense stress, insult and hurt, to the actor who is playing an important character, the first woman captain, and someone who had put so much heart, soul, thoughtfulness and care into constructing a woman captain who had earned the position as a solid, professional leader and diplomat so that you can see her for her competency, brains and devotion to Starfleet. She was as excited as the rest of us and did all she could to PR for the show.

Suddenly, it was decided that it needs to be about sexuality. It’s now all about the look of the character and what it would do to the “male gaze”. Completely undermining everything Kate Mulgrew had been working for in her portrayal of Janeway. And they made Janeway as equally “obsessed” about Seven of Nine as any one who would be to the desirable body.

Direct slap in the face if you ask me.

* It stressed out the “new star” they were counting on “to save show”.

The story of Seven starts with that she was assimilated by the Borg and literally had no autonomy over her own mind much less her body. Then along comes the federation that makes the decision to do the same in an oddly opposite manner. And, very ironically, the show now puts the actor into as tight fitting as they can suit which leaves nothing to the imagination and unleashes her to the crew made up of puerile boys and and a captain who has now been made singularly obsessed with getting her “family" home at all costs and making sure Seven fits into her idea of that family.

The PR machine had started grinding as soon as the ink was dry on the contract. Behold the sexy savior of the show before she had even reported for her first day of shooting. That’s a good formula for team work - tout the new person’s savior qualities completely ignoring everyone else who has worked so hard for 3 years already. Add in how it insults everything someone had tried to do to present a competent, hard working, intelligent presence that has nothing to do with a person’s gender or sex drive and shake well.

Jeri herself said that she would get nauseous when it was time to be on set. Is this how you treat a savior? (Don’t answer that rhetorical question please). At the end Jeri swore never again.

Yet somehow, next point.

* Enter the Borg Beauty-Queen. With a Beautiful Brain.

As my favorite reviewer of the time wrote in a retro review (and who says it better than I ever could, hence she’s a reviewer and I’m not):

“I’d become so accustomed to the hyper-feminized Seven of Nine from late in the series – who longed for a traditional love life and more than once had to be rescued like a damsel in distress – that I’d forgotten her powerful introduction, as a character who paradoxically represents a vast collective yet comes across as a determined, striking individual with a surprising range of emotions. Given that all advance publicity about the character’s arrival had focused on her appearance and the beauty-queen background of the actress playing her, it’s delightful to see right from the start that Jeri Ryan can portray both the scope and subtlety of feeling of a drone with human antecedents, and that she can stand in opposition to familiar characters without becoming antagonistic.” Michelle Erica Green, Trektoday.com Retro Review: Scorpion, Part II

My spouse, who was never really a Star Trek fan, got introduced to it when I started watching the new shows. Along came ST: Picard with the quirky, fun, lovable Raffi. And, “kickass” Seven…the attitude had matured. Determined, striking individual indeed. After we finished watching ST: Picard, I mentioned it would be good to see how/where Seven came from. We started watching ST: Voyager from when Seven came onto the show (I provided background of how Voyager go to this point in the show and the turmoil behind her inclusion in the show). Several good and bad episodes later my spouse commented “I love how she shows the hurt little girl inside with her eyes”.

Show-runners: “ignore the little girl, just look at that vavavoom body!” (not to mention how incredibly uncomfortable it is to see a little girl in a woman’s body treated this way).

Doesn’t it speak to human frailty that it was most surprising that Jeri was a far better actor than most expected for a beauty-queen. She pulled the focus from her tight fitted body up to the eyes that were a window into the heart and soul of the character. I’ll say it again, she did this…not them.

And, it was a wonder to watch Jeri on a talk show at the time where the host kept harping on the tight suit and the sensual nature of the character and Jeri quickly and “without becoming antagonistic” replies “Seven of Nine is not a sexual character at all.” She gets it. She has a beautiful brain alright.

* Enter Seven’s story arc and Jeri’s return from “never again”.

Somehow all the right elements combined to produce a much deeper, wider and heartfelt story arc than I ever believed they had ever planned during the time of ST: Voyager. Or that would actually ever come along. Oh yes, they most definitely underestimated Jeri Ryan and the power of understanding trauma and resilience and what draws you and endears you to a character. And it has nothing at all to do with them or that darn "cat suit".
 
...Completely destroyed the image and depth of the highly admired lead woman on the show...

...This introduced immense stress, insult and hurt, to the actor who is playing an important character...

...It stressed out the “new star” they were counting on “to save show”...
I can see how some of that could be described as "backfiring" ...but you said you were glad it did, so does that mean you're happy about the suffering you described? Or are you glad because the character was written and acted well? I assume the latter, and I lump them together as one point because the character wasn't accidentally good. Jeri didn't make up her own words, and there was never a push for her to be only a body. No one on the show ever said, "Ugh, can you stop making her interesting and just get her to take her shirt off!"

I don't believe they underestimated Jeri Ryan. They could have hired any number of "knockouts" that were not skilled. Many shows did. They chose Jeri for multiple reasons.
 
* Enter Seven’s story arc and Jeri’s return from “never again”.

Somehow all the right elements combined to produce a much deeper, wider and heartfelt story arc than I ever believed they had ever planned during the time of ST: Voyager. Or that would actually ever come along. Oh yes, they most definitely underestimated Jeri Ryan and the power of understanding trauma and resilience and what draws you and endears you to a character. And it has nothing at all to do with them or that darn "cat suit".

Dumping the catsuit and corset was one condition Jeri had for coming back.

Seven is a tactical mastermind. She possesses one of the most complicated psyches in all of Trek. She'd be a great lead for a #StarTrekLegacy show. :)

"Ugh, can you stop making her interesting and just get her to take her shirt off!"

That's what Berman did with T'Pol on Enterprise (He never really developed her. He had Jolene Blalock do a spread for Maxim Magazine! :eek: )
 
Had her do it?

Jeri Ryan appeared in Maxim as well.

As a feminist, I think women should be allowed to do a sexy photoshoot if they want to.
 
Doesn’t it speak to human frailty that it was most surprising that Jeri was a far better actor than most expected for a beauty-queen. She pulled the focus from her tight fitted body up to the eyes that were a window into the heart and soul of the character. I’ll say it again, she did this…not them.
Agreed. I think that's the one thing that would make me change my mind on Seven. As a character she was fascinating.

As a advertising gimmick she was damn frustrating. Picard did better with her but Voyager always will leave a sour spot for me because of she was marketed.

Irrational? Yes, yes, it is. But very human.
 
I can see how some of that could be described as "backfiring" ...but you said you were glad it did, so does that mean you're happy about the suffering you described? Or are you glad because the character was written and acted well? I assume the latter, and I lump them together as one point because the character wasn't accidentally good. Jeri didn't make up her own words, and there was never a push for her to be only a body. No one on the show ever said, "Ugh, can you stop making her interesting and just get her to take her shirt off!"

I don't believe they underestimated Jeri Ryan. They could have hired any number of "knockouts" that were not skilled. Many shows did. They chose Jeri for multiple reasons.

Thank you for your questions and wanting me to dig deeper into my thoughts and meanings. I certainly do not intend for any kind of “I said, you said” type of situation. My passion and brain can be quite pushy to me sometimes.

Perhaps it did come across as schadenfreude but I in no way meant it that way. I would not ever wish any of the suffering that happened. But it did happen. It also introduced hurt and insult to a large swath of fans of the show just based on the basic reason why they wanted her in that suit - they wanted different fans and didn’t care if they alienated the already loyal fans.

And they refused to listen to how it was hurtful and insulting, so I just find it hard to give any credit to the show for the fact that Seven ended up being such a beloved character. I guess it’s like deciding who or what is to be given credit the musician or the instrument? I do not want to take away from the writing of the show (but it really was hit or miss quite a lot). I’m just saying that as good as Jeri was making her, she deserved better on the show.

And as to if no one or someone said anything about stop making her interesting, honestly, we don’t know what went on so that’s just conjecture.

So when I say that I’m quite happy, I meant that something very good came out of it - that someone(s) finally recognized the true potential of the character and took great care to bring it along that course as well as managing to get the great musician back to play it. Minus the suit of course. That I will truly give credit to.

And, of course, ends, means, and all that.

Thanks again for your point of view and questions.
 
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