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Authors: How do you avoid contradicting future films/TV?

SpaceLama

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I was wondering this, because there is still a lot of disagreement on things as basic as how big the new Enterprise is (~300m+ vs. ~700m+). There is even disagreement amongst fans on things like whether Spock Prime was the original Spock or not. While its easy to just ignore things that don't make sense, it could impact internal consistency a lot - did JJA and Co. provide a 'bible' for the new setting, or something?

I guess a more specific question is, will you treat the new setting as a blank slate, or heavily reference continuity from the old setting?

For example, life in the Federation looks radically different in the new movie - with Star Wars-style mega-structures dotting the skyline of Earth, etc - it looks more like something out of Iain M Banks 'Culture' novels - so referencing a planet from TOS having the same settlements and lifestyle in the new setting, could go against what 'the powers that be' have in mind for the re-imagined setting.
 
I hear that Keith DeCandido uses a time machine to see the upcoming films/TV.

Christopher Bennett predicts the future with psychohistorical calculations.

And David Mack just wills it to go the way he needs.
 
I'm not an author, but some of those problems are easily avoided. I can't imagine why a writer would bother to even mention some of that stuff. No one's going to write anything like this:
Spock, the old one, who came from a universe in which Spock had always looked like Leonard Nimoy even when he was young and whose adventures included the first three seasons of Star Trek and the first six movies, sat in the shuttle, looking out the window at the Enterprise. Was it really only 300 metres long? Or was he farther away from it than he realized? He looked out the other window, down to the surface of Earth, where he could see massive arcologies in places he had never visited before, as well as some tall buildings in San Francisco that he hadn't noticed when he taught at the Academy.
 
I was wondering this, because there is still a lot of disagreement on things as basic as how big the new Enterprise is (~300m+ vs. ~700m+). There is even disagreement amongst fans on things like whether Spock Prime was the original Spock or not. While its easy to just ignore things that don't make sense, it could impact internal consistency a lot - did JJA and Co. provide a 'bible' for the new setting, or something?

As always, it's the job of the studio licensing department to ensure that Trek novels are kept consistent with screen canon. Bad Robot also has approval over the Abramsverse books and comic tie-ins. In my case, I've based Seek a Newer World on what I saw in the film and read in articles and interviews, and I expect that if the folks at Bad Robot feel I got something wrong, they'll ask for it to be changed.

As for the size of the new Enterprise, though it does reportedly vary from shot to shot, the official word from the filmmakers and ILM is that it's somewhere around 2000 feet, comparable in size to the Enterprise-D. There are inconsistent reports as to the exact figure, but all I need to say in the book is that it's a very big ship, since the exact figure is irrelevant to the storytelling.

I'm not sure what your question has to do with the thread title, though, because nothing you're asking is about future films. As for those, it's impossible to know what they'll hold. Even the filmmakers themselves haven't yet decided what story they're going to tell, and it's a foolish writer who tries to lock everything down in advance. Even if they thought they knew such-and-such a thing about the state of the Abramsverse and wrote it down in a "bible," they might decide a year from now that they have a better idea that requires contradicting that. If you look at the original series bible for just about any TV series, you'll find that much of it ends up getting ignored or contradicted later on. For instance, according to the original TNG bible, Data was built by mysterious aliens, "Bill" Riker was prejudiced against Data, Geordi was the liaison with the ship's children, and Worf didn't even exist.

So the risk of contradiction is just an occupational hazard. Heck, we're writing science fiction. Sooner or later, every SF story ever written is going to be contradicted, whether by new scientific knowledge or just by the calendar catching up to it. So you can't worry too much about that -- just tell the best story you can based on what you know now.

The most we can do is try to minimize the risk of contradiction by avoiding stories that are likely to be contradicted. To cite an obvious example, we wouldn't pitch a story where McCoy got killed, because that would surely be contradicted by the next movie. Nor would we do a story with something really huge happening like peace breaking out with the Klingons. Just in general, the goal is to tell stories that don't alter the status quo.


I guess a more specific question is, will you treat the new setting as a blank slate, or heavily reference continuity from the old setting?

The new movie has created a whole new audience of Trek fans, people who weren't fans of the franchise already. The expectation and hope is that a lot of those people will be curious enough to pick up the Abramsverse books once they hit the shelves. So these books are designed to be accessible to people who know Star Trek only from the movie, or who have only a casual familiarity with the Prime universe. They won't be exercises in continuity porn or extended apologias for the film's interpretation of the Trek universe. They're standalone adventure stories building on the continuity of the film -- just as if they were tie-ins for an original movie.

That said, the working assumption is that, as the film assumed, this is an alternate temporal branch of the same reality, and that everything before the attack on the Kelvin was the same in both universes. So there are some acknowledgments of that shared background in my manuscript -- no lengthy diatribes on "Here is why this looks different than it did before," but simply casual acknowledgments of things that exist in the Trek we know, like Andorians, Klingons, and the like. Maybe the occasional passing reference to a familiar name, like how the movie had McCoy speaking to an off-camera Nurse Chapel, or how it had nameplates for Admiral Komack and Captain Chandra at Kirk's Academy hearing.

At least, that's my approach. This is part of the same multiverse, but the storytelling doesn't dwell on that fact, it just tells self-contained stories in the spirit and continuity of the film. My depiction of the characters and their world is based principally on the film, but implicitly informed by the rest of Trek canon. (For instance, I mention at one point in my book that Sulu likes botany, something that didn't come up in the film but is something we know about him from the Prime universe. But it's a passing detail, not an exercise in comparative continuity.)


For example, life in the Federation looks radically different in the new movie - with Star Wars-style mega-structures dotting the skyline of Earth, etc - it looks more like something out of Iain M Banks 'Culture' novels - so referencing a planet from TOS having the same settlements and lifestyle in the new setting, could go against what 'the powers that be' have in mind for the re-imagined setting.

How do you know it's different? When have we ever seen 2250s Earth in prior Trek canon? How do you know there weren't massive arcologies in the middle of Iowa in the Prime universe?

Besides, you can't take visual interpretations too literally in a work of fiction. It's hardly the first time geography has changed. Here's Ex Astris Scientia on all the various inconsistent depictions of Vulcan and other major planets over the decades:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/planet_mutations.htm

It's just poetic license. The various Trek productions have been made by different directors, different producers, different production designers. They bring their own sensibilities to what they create. It's not inconsistent reality, just variant artistic interpretations of something that's imaginary anyway. (Kind of like how different artists working on, say, Spider-Man comics may have radically different ways of drawing the characters even though they're supposed to be the same people in the same continuity.)
 
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As always, it's the job of the studio licensing department to ensure that Trek novels are kept consistent with screen canon. Bad Robot also has approval over the Abramsverse books and comic tie-ins. In my case, I've based Seek a Newer World on what I saw in the film and read in articles and interviews, and I expect that if the folks at Bad Robot feel I got something wrong, they'll ask for it to be changed.

Ah, didn't know that was the case - its good to know there is a fair bit of effort to make literature consist with the films, etc.

As for the size of the new Enterprise, though it does reportedly vary from shot to shot, the official word from the filmmakers and ILM is that it's somewhere around 2000 feet, comparable in size to the Enterprise-D. There are inconsistent reports as to the exact figure, but all I need to say in the book is that it's a very big ship, since the exact figure is irrelevant to the storytelling.
Yeah, for now, it seems the 2000ft/700m size is roughly right.

I'm not sure what your question has to do with the thread title, though, because nothing you're asking is about future films.
I have some trouble articulating what I am trying to ask, perhaps due to dyslexia. I try my best to word it in a way everyone will understand, but William Leisner apparently found my first thread so offensive, he put me on his ignore list - I asked what people felt about tie-in literature, and raised a few concerns I had from reading pre-2007 Star Trek books, but a couple of people interpreted my words into 'tie in literature sucks' :lol:

As for those, it's impossible to know what they'll hold. Even the filmmakers themselves haven't yet decided what story they're going to tell, and it's a foolish writer who tries to lock everything down in advance. Even if they thought they knew such-and-such a thing about the state of the Abramsverse and wrote it down in a "bible," they might decide a year from now that they have a better idea that requires contradicting that. If you look at the original series bible for just about any TV series, you'll find that much of it ends up getting ignored or contradicted later on. For instance, according to the original TNG bible, Data was built by mysterious aliens, "Bill" Riker was prejudiced against Data, Geordi was the liaison with the ship's children, and Worf didn't even exist.

So the risk of contradiction is just an occupational hazard. Heck, we're writing science fiction. Sooner or later, every SF story ever written is going to be contradicted, whether by new scientific knowledge or just by the calendar catching up to it. So you can't worry too much about that -- just tell the best story you can based on what you know now.
Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that the books should be too careful - I was just a bit worried that the next film would be radically different, due to creative differences - what you said about working with the studios, pretty much clears that up.

The most we can do is try to minimize the risk of contradiction by avoiding stories that are likely to be contradicted. To cite an obvious example, we wouldn't pitch a story where McCoy got killed, because that would surely be contradicted by the next movie. Nor would we do a story with something really huge happening like peace breaking out with the Klingons. Just in general, the goal is to tell stories that don't alter the status quo.

The new movie has created a whole new audience of Trek fans, people who weren't fans of the franchise already. The expectation and hope is that a lot of those people will be curious enough to pick up the Abramsverse books once they hit the shelves. So these books are designed to be accessible to people who know Star Trek only from the movie, or who have only a casual familiarity with the Prime universe. They won't be exercises in continuity porn or extended apologias for the film's interpretation of the Trek universe. They're standalone adventure stories building on the continuity of the film -- just as if they were tie-ins for an original movie.
Yeah - I am glad about that - I didn't believe they would be apologies for the film's interpretation, and did not want them to be. I will try to explain what I was trying to get at; I was wondering to what extent writers would be treating the new setting as a re-imagining. In other words, I was wondering, just as one example, whether writers would be interpreting the Federation at large has having a roughly TOS era society - or whether writers would be making radical departures from that, given that Nero introduced a radical divergance - for example, maybe technology was kicked up so radically, that the Federation is considering building a ringworld? Obviously, if the new timeline follows the old one closely, that level of change would be out of the question - but a liberal interpretation would allow such liberal changes.

Do you know what I mean? I'm not just asking something trivial like whether the old setting had arcologies - rather I'm asking how liberally divergant you see the new setting - presumably the studios will decide this. Personally speaking, I feel a reboot is a good oppertunity to make some very liberal changes.

At least, that's my approach. This is part of the same multiverse, but the storytelling doesn't dwell on that fact, it just tells self-contained stories in the spirit and continuity of the film.
Although I love soft science fiction equally, I love hard SF - so I was just wondering if there was room in the new setting for the Federation to encounter lots of, or even construct Big Dumb Objects (BDO). :)

Obviously, the original timeline was so well established, that it was inconcievable for the Federation to suddenly start acting in this way, because there was simply no precident. But since they are apparently being quite liberal with ship sizes, I thought maybe Federation society as a whole could perhaps undergo a big change in the new setting.

My depiction of the characters and their world is based principally on the film, but implicitly informed by the rest of Trek canon.
Yeah, in the end, characters are all important - as long as that is done well, I don't care about the rest - I only ask out of interest.

How do you know it's different? When have we ever seen 2250s Earth in prior Trek canon? How do you know there weren't massive arcologies in the middle of Iowa in the Prime universe?
Yeah, I know that - but hopefully you know what I was trying to get at now - I guess I feel that this new setting is a good oppertunity to change a lot - but perhaps the feeling amongst 'the powers that be' is that radical changes should not be made.

They bring their own sensibilities to what they create.
Definatly - I try to keep an open mind at all times, despite asking these things.
 
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The answer to the question that is the subject of this thread is: "We don't."

Moving on............ :)
 
The answer to the question that is the subject of this thread is: "We don't."

Moving on............ :)
I'm wondering, are your novels just as monosyllabic and "I don't give a damn"-ish?

Christopher's reply was great, yours... well, not.
 
The answer to the question that is the subject of this thread is: "We don't."

Moving on............ :)
I'm wondering, are your novels just as monosyllabic and "I don't give a damn"-ish?

Christopher's reply was great, yours... well, not.

Actually in my opinion most of what Christopher said beyond the involvement of Licensing and Bad Robot was unnecessary to answer the question in the thread title.

KRAD's answer was just his way to say that the authors can't do anything to avoid being contradicted. No matter how careful they are, and how much BAD Robot might like the story an author writes at the moment, there is no guarantee they won't contradict it when it suits there need for the next film.
 
I will try to explain what I was trying to get at; I was wondering to what extent writers would be treating the new setting as a re-imagining. In other words, I was wondering, just as one example, whether writers would be interpreting the Federation at large has having a roughly TOS era society - or whether writers would be making radical departures from that, given that Nero introduced a radical divergance - for example, maybe technology was kicked up so radically, that the Federation is considering building a ringworld? Obviously, if the new timeline follows the old one closely, that level of change would be out of the question - but a liberal interpretation would allow such liberal changes.

Our job is to follow the lead of the filmmakers. It's not our place to postulate such major worldbuilding details, since after all those would almost certainly be contradicted in future films. It's the filmmakers' place to define the parameters of the post-Nero timeline. Our job is to tell self-contained adventure stories that will appeal to fans of the film but that won't have any impact upon the status quo of its universe.

The filmmakers have said in interviews that Starfleet's technology is more advanced in some ways as a result of studying the Kelvin survivors' scans of the Narada. But only so much can change in 25 years. So it's not quite the same universe we knew, but it's reasonable to assume that in broad strokes it's largely similar.


Although I love soft science fiction equally, I love hard SF - so I was just wondering if there was room in the new setting for the Federation to encounter lots of, or even construct Big Dumb Objects (BDO). :)

Well, you never know where megastructures might turn up even in a "conventional" kind of Trek story... :cool:
 
I'm wondering why everyone thinks this new universe would be more exciting than the old one, when the really big and important changes are limited to the movies (which will 2, 3 years apart, and probably last only 3 movies in total) and the novels can not really expand the universe because they would be contradicted anyway (and from what I've read Orci and Kurtzman already didn't care about the novels being written, so there won't be any references to events in described the novels either).

Sounds to me that this new, fresh, exciting universe everyone is making so much fuzz about will in the long run turn out to be much lamer than the old one.


How do you know it's different? When have we ever seen 2250s Earth in prior Trek canon? How do you know there weren't massive arcologies in the middle of Iowa in the Prime universe?
Can't say anything about arcologies in Iowa, but San Francisco definately changed from what was seen in TMP and all it's appearances in TNG (in the original universe it looks like it was treated like some sort of UNESCO world heritage site that was not allowed to change its appearance, in nuTrek it looked like a megacity from the 5th element). Of course it's just an artistic/budgetary decision, but Trek has always tended to try to explain stuff like that (Klingon foreheads anyone?).
 
I'm wondering why everyone thinks this new universe would be more exciting than the old one, when the really big and important changes are limited to the movies (which will 2, 3 years apart, and probably last only 3 movies in total) and the novels can not really expand the universe because they would be contradicted anyway (and from what I've read Orci and Kurtzman already didn't care about the novels being written, so there won't be any references to events in described the novels either).

Sounds to me that this new, fresh, exciting universe everyone is making so much fuzz about will in the long run turn out to be much lamer than the old one.

Personally I am hoping the films will lead into a new TV series - something like what J Michael Stratzynski proposed after ENT.
 
I'm wondering why everyone thinks this new universe would be more exciting than the old one, when the really big and important changes are limited to the movies (which will 2, 3 years apart, and probably last only 3 movies in total) and the novels can not really expand the universe because they would be contradicted anyway (and from what I've read Orci and Kurtzman already didn't care about the novels being written, so there won't be any references to events in described the novels either).

Actually Orci and Kurtzman are far more engaged with Trek literature than any other Trek producers I'm aware of. They've said many a time that they've read the novels as fans and as part of their research for the movies. So saying they "don't care" is too harsh. They're fans of the books, but they're producing the core material and thus are not -- and should not be -- constrained to follow the lead of supplementary material. On the contrary, it's the job of tie-ins to follow the lead of the core material's creators. Kurtzman & Orci have gotten general inspiration from some of the books -- for instance, Diane Carey's Best Destiny had a substantial influence on young Kirk's portrayal and arc in the film -- and that's more than we have any right to expect.


Sounds to me that this new, fresh, exciting universe everyone is making so much fuzz about will in the long run turn out to be much lamer than the old one.

Well, remember that for most of the history of Trek literature, it's been bound by the same constraints that now apply to Abramsverse fiction. And yet it's managed to turn out some memorable stories within those constraints. Also, the new timeline is, well, new. It's not well-defined yet. It will certainly become more fleshed out in years to come, and the more that happens, the more options we'll have to find interesting story avenues to pursue.

Besides, like I said, the new line is targeting new readers. People who are fans of the current line might or might not find the new line satisfying, depending on what they want in their Trek fiction. That's okay. For a long time, Pocket has been doing a diverse range of titles, and it's a given that no single series is going to appeal to everyone.

Can't say anything about arcologies in Iowa, but San Francisco definately changed from what was seen in TMP and all it's appearances in TNG (in the original universe it looks like it was treated like some sort of UNESCO world heritage site that was not allowed to change its appearance, in nuTrek it looked like a megacity from the 5th element). Of course it's just an artistic/budgetary decision, but Trek has always tended to try to explain stuff like that (Klingon foreheads anyone?).

Trek hasn't always tried to explain its changes. It's never tried to explain the different ways Vulcan has looked from orbit. It's never tried to explain why Saavik or Zefram Cochrane changed appearance. It's never tried to explain why Worf's forehead underwent a radical transformation after the first season, or why Ro Laren's nose ridges got simplified, or why the bridge of the Klingon Bird of Prey transformed drastically between the third and fourth movies.

For that matter, San Francisco has not looked all that consistent in past Trek productions. It even changes appearance between the original and Director's Edition of ST:TMP! For that matter, even though TMP establishes Starfleet HQ as being on the San Francisco side of the Golden Gate Bridge, roughly where the Presidio is in real life, most subsequent shots of Starfleet HQ and Academy have actually shown the bridge from the Alameda side, getting it backwards relative to where it's supposed to go. (ST IV did the same thing; when Gillian drove up to Kirk and Spock and offered them a ride back to San Francisco, they were actually already on the SF side of the bridge.) In all cases, this was poetic license taken for aesthetic reasons. Film images are created to give an aesthetic or visceral impression, and their accuracy or consistency is a secondary concern.

As for a "world heritage site," I think you must be thinking of the historical district from VGR: "Non Sequitur," which was not meant to represent the entire city.
 
The answer to the question that is the subject of this thread is: "We don't."

Moving on............ :)
I'm wondering, are your novels just as monosyllabic and "I don't give a damn"-ish?

They're great!! Really, they're only so much you can worry about that when it comes to future movies that haven't been written, or even thought out.

Esp. since the books are not canon. Hopefully that word will not come up again in this thread.
 
Besides, like I said, the new line is targeting new readers. People who are fans of the current line might or might not find the new line satisfying, depending on what they want in their Trek fiction.

I'm holding out interest in both :)

When I was young, I would have been mortified by the idea of rebooting Star Trek, but now, I just see the new Trek and the original Trek as something akin to the difference between Gundam and Gundam SEED (not that I actually follow Gundam), or original Battlestar Galactica and new Battlestar Galactica. I stopped caring about preserving the original timeline on TV, because I felt certain additions to it had strained the believability and consistency of the setting too far anyway. Also, watching lots of anime in the years since, reading lots of SF, as well as seeing the BSG reboot, makes a young Trekkie into a more generalised SF fan.

When I was young, there was far less SF on TV - Star Trek, Babylon 5, and repeats of stuff like Space: 1999 and UFO.
 
Besides, you can't take visual interpretations too literally in a work of fiction. It's hardly the first time geography has changed. Here's Ex Astris Scientia on all the various inconsistent depictions of Vulcan and other major planets over the decades:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/planet_mutations.htm

It's just poetic license. The various Trek productions have been made by different directors, different producers, different production designers. They bring their own sensibilities to what they create. It's not inconsistent reality, just variant artistic interpretations of something that's imaginary anyway. (Kind of like how different artists working on, say, Spider-Man comics may have radically different ways of drawing the characters even though they're supposed to be the same people in the same continuity.)

I’d be careful of using EAS as a reference for Star Trek XI stuff. Bernd is trying to cram the new version of Trek into the ‘old’ universe, and it’s leading him to ignore/change bits of the movie to fit ‘his’ version of what the new Trek should be.
 
^Which is irrelevant to my point. I wasn't using it as a reference for Trek XI stuff, I was explicitly using it as a reference for earlier material to demonstrate that there were already inconsistent depictions of San Francisco and other locations long before Trek XI.
 
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