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Astral Queen, starliners and cargo pods

Wingsley

Commodore
Commodore
In "The Conscience of the King", Captain Kirk asks a favor of Captain John Daily of the Astral Queen: strand the Karidian Company of Players theatrical troupe and crew on Planet Q so the Starship Enterprise can haul them to Benecia.

This tantalizing bit of never-actually-seen canon captured my imagination and apparently Franz Joseph Schnaubelt's as well. In FJ's 1975 Technical Manual publication, FJ posited that the Astral Queen was actually a large, tubular uni-hulled cargo pod with impulse power only, built to be ferried from one star system to another by the Federation Starfleet's Ptolemy-class Transport-Tug starships.

If you look at FJ's work closely, you will see that he presupposed that the United Federation of Planets was a fairly recent development, apparently being chartered only as a result of the Treaty of Axanar ("Whom Gods Destroy"). He assumes that the construction of the Starfleet's starships-of-the-line (Ptolemy among them) was laid down in his Articles of Confederation. So the history and structure of the Federation and starships is both young and simple compared to the canon of subsequent TREK series.

So FJ seems to have asserted quite a bit about the Federation's TOS-era transport systems. There was no suggestion of non-Starfleet Federation transport vessels, or of robot ships like the Woden ("The Ultimate Computer"), or of hybrid manned and/or robot convoys like what the faked Deirdre distress call alluded to ("Friday's Child"). Nor are there any suggestions in FJ's Tech Manual about lesser Federation starship-transports that are not Class I starships-of-the-line.

If we take TOS-in-isolation, and if we assume that the Federation is perhaps about one hundred years old (give or take), what other alternatives could there be?

There is a great deal of logic to the idea that the Astral Queen would be a "starliner" pod, which could be tugged by a wide variety of "tug"-like deep space vessels, both Starfleet and non-Starfleet. Logistically, this would make a great deal of sense, since any tug could be attached to any transport pod, and tugs could either mix a variety of personnel and various types of cargo or be configured and dispatched to very specific missions.

This would make an enormous amount of sense in the TOS Universe unto itself, as it would mean that engineering/design and construction personnel and resources could more easily build simpler pods for a variety of uses, while the tugs (of various configurations and capabilities) could be designed and constructed simply to haul a general pod spec. So the "tug" is like a manned (or robot) warp-sled (ST:TMP) and the pods are simpler mass-transit vessels (without warp drive or other elaborate facilities found aboard an actual starship) along for the ride.

FJ does create a grand and intricate infrastructure here, like crossing a starship with a mail train, a cargo jet and a cruise ship.

But envisioning something like this in a TOS worldview, what would it look like in terms to its interior facilities and overall capabilities? FJ's "starliner" specs suggest a vessel that hauls 15 officers, 150 crew, and up to 500 passengers. I wonder what would happen if this concept were further explored, extrapolated upon and evolved...

Any ideas?

[NOTE: this is not just a technical discussion. It is a conceptual discussion from a TOS worldview.]
 
FJ's "starliner" specs suggest a vessel that hauls 15 officers, 150 crew, and up to 500 passengers. I wonder what would happen if this concept were further explored, extrapolated upon and evolved...

This might explain how colonists get where they're going: they charter a starliner. It can carry a large number of passengers, and it's for hire, so they don't have to buy it outright.

Thus, hundreds of people could afford to go to Omicron Ceti III. Another business model is the S.S. Columbia, which took only a tiny number to Talos IV, and might have been owned by the travelers.
 
You may wish to check out some Star Fleet Battle material regarding tugs and pods. They postulate battle pods, which fix to a tug like normal but carries much heavier weapons than the tug itself or even a cruiser. I believe they also had a carrier pod which holds a whole fleet of shuttles and small craft.

I've personally imagined a tractor beam pod which holds its own power generators and heavy duty beam emitters to drag real heavy object.

Also, just because FJ didn't describe any but Class-I starships doesn't suggest no others existed. In fact, by referring to them as "Class-I" we must assume that other classes exist. I personally imagine the Astral Queen to be a ship on its own right, not a pod that must be towed. However, there's no reason to say I'm right about that.

(I once built a model of my own conjectural version of the AQ, based on a kitbash of an A-10 warthog. I thought it looked pretty sweet.... unfortunately I don't have a picture of it.:-( )

Starliner pods as colony transports would make some sense, as well as conversion of them into troop transports in times of need.

Though, I don't think the S.S. Columbia is a valid example, as those fellows weren't colonists. I got the impression that they were people manning a ship of exploration, on a scientific study mission funded by the American Continent Institute. They had every intention of returning before they crashed on Talos IV.

--Alex
 
There's another possibility for the S.S. Columbia: the American Continent Institute acquired (or built) a robot warp-sled/tug, and the Columbia was a pod taken by that sled to the Talos Star Group. Once there, the Talosians seized control of the sled and caused it to self-destruct and the Columbia to crash land. It could be that the ACI expected the warp-sled to ferry expedition members and cargo back and forth between Earth and Talos while the expedition was planned to be active there.
 
This tantalizing bit of never-actually-seen canon captured my imagination and apparently Franz Joseph Schnaubelt's as well. In FJ's 1975 Technical Manual publication, FJ posited that the Astral Queen was actually a large, tubular uni-hulled cargo pod with impulse power only, built to be ferried from one star system to another by the Federation Starfleet's Ptolemy-class Transport-Tug starships.

[NOTE: this is not just a technical discussion. It is a conceptual discussion from a TOS worldview.]

First: I love this line of discussion
Second: it made me pull out my old FJ technical manual. And here is where I get confused. I don't see where he had any of the named Ptolemy class tugs labelled as the astral queen. Am I missing something here?
 
The ships name-dropped in TOS appear in just about each and every one of the old blueprint or technology publication. The Astral Queen is part of the Independence class of freighters in Geoff Mandel's blueprints, say - along with everybody else, from Antares to Carolina to Dierdre... But I don't remember FJ naming a pod after her.

Cargo pods of various mission-specific types sound nice as a concept, but in FJ's young Federation, they would be a massive problem: hauling these vast things around would leave the desired sort unavailable and the wrong sort piling up in the various starports. Even with just one generic design for every application, there would be problems with the flow of tare, unless there were tens of thousands rather than mere hundreds of these pods, and unless the typical load to a colony were a single podful rather than just 2% of its volume.

In an older Federation, experience might have been mounting, and the right balance to logistics found. TOS already sets up an universe where the military may rescue valiant colonists and careless scientists from trouble but independent traders do all the real work and despise the military for meddling. However, the Antares is implied to be government-run (or whatever this UESPA thing is), and nobody calls the Astral Queen a "liner" or any other such civilian nomer. Perhaps the far frontier is different from the well-established core, and logistics depend on the scheduling and goodwill of Starfleet exploration, defense and support vessels?

Timo Saloniemi
 
I think there would be tens of thousands rather than hundreds. These things are meant to be the trailers of space-going semi-articulated tractor-trailers. In the FJ manual, each pod-type is shown with a registry number one thousand units apart from the others, so with each of five styles of pod having up to a thousand units apiece, that's 5,000 pods right there. (Though I would also recommend dismissing these NCC numbers, as there are logical conflicts with both other numbers in the FJ TM as well as later official ships.)

I have to wonder about the Astral Queen itself, though. If it's just a pod to be towed by a larger starship (or even just a warp capable tug) would it have its own captain? And what service would that captian be a part of? He and Kirk seem to be well-known to each other. He owed Kirk a dozen favors, so why was that? How did he and Kirk know each other?

--Alex
 
I assume that FJ's cargo pods are somewhat like the ore boats and similar transports operating on today's Great Lakes. (One gets a glimpse of this existence in Gordon Lightfoot's 1976 hit song "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald". I do not have a problem with these pods not being "real starships" in their own right. Even though they lack built-in warp drive and other facilities and equipment that a more fully capable starship would logically have, they are still space vessels. They still have impulse power. Could they land on a planet to moon? Could they dock with a space station? Or could they just be left in orbit to either jettison their internal container modules or methodically unload their cargo in to shuttles or use transporters to beam their cargo to its destination port? It's not clear, but mission-specific pods would likely have crews of mission-specific sizes, from 0 to 600, depending on the use of robots, the availability of personnel, and the specifics of the mission profile. Just as Spock's courier-shuttle in TMP was a space vessel that used a warp-sled, so they same would be true of this kind of pod arrangement.
 
BTW: I don't see a problem with mass-production of transport pods of any kind. These vessels should be much simpler and easier to build than full-blown starships. The pods have no warp drive, apparently few if any weapons, relatively few sensors or other communication equipment, etc. The pods themselves would be a shell-like design that would be built to sustain deep space travel to a common specification. This would make mass production, quality control, maintenance, durability, and upgradability much easier for engineers and ship-builders to build-in. It would also explain how it could be easy to build space stations / starbases at remote locations quickly and easily; just pre-fab the station to a spec that fits in a pod (or is the pod itself) and hitch it up to a warptug.
 
Wouldn't a cargo pod be more like a modern 'container'? The FJ concept would have the tug be the means of locomotion. As such, you wouldn't exactly name a pod. I pulled out my old FJ tech manual and didn't see any astral queen reference. So, if it's not a tug and (I would suggest) not a pod, then it's probably a separate ship design.
 
The big difference is that these containers are huge, relatively speaking. Moving one around would call for careful planning, and having one stuck in the wrong place would be a greater loss than with today's shipping containers. Let alone having one abandoned for good, converted to a beanstalk counterweight, or whatever. Melted for its duranium?

The more gadgetry there is inside (say, life support), the more the container differs conceptually from today's units, even the most complex ones with cooling or heating systems.

If it's just a pod to be towed by a larger starship (or even just a warp capable tug) would it have its own captain?

Would the captain of a pod get to make a decision on whether to pick up the theater troupe or not? I mean, yeah, the ship is already on "orbit station", so it's not a question of whether to sail to the planet or not. But what is the practical excuse the skipper of a pod can offer, when things relating to mass limits or the like should concern the master of the tug at least to an equal degree?

And if the Astral Queen is a FJ pod, would any excuse suffice? Such a vast structure wouldn't even notice whether there are two dozen extra people aboard or not. Life support couldn't really be down for the whole pod, without major pretense. And even if the pod were out of commission altogether, a Ptolemy ought to be at least as capable of accommodating the troupe as a Constitution...

Timo Saloniemi
 
I don't know a lot about FJ, but my take on his ship designs is that they were constrained to fit with what was seen in the production, so everything is rooted in a mix-and-match of Enterprise components.

Personally, I'm not too fond of that approach. Besides the potential for more interesting designs, it makes for a smaller-world feeling. Who hauls freight around the Federation colonies? Well, we know about Starfleet, so I guess it's Starfleet.

I'm pretty sure that the original writers envisioned something more like the written space opera of the day, with varied space equivalents to shipping companies, passenger lines, tramp freighters and so on. We know there is a "merchant marine" in TOS, so what do they do? Compete with Starfleet, or scramble for the crumbs that Starfleet leaves behind?
 
^ I would expect that Starfleet ships, cargo pods and bases would handle the more hazardous and "military"-oriented tasks, while many colonization and transit infrastructure duties would be delegated to "civilian" craft, possibly including the "Astral Queen".
 
^Yeah, Starfleet would definitely have to have its own "military" transport ships. But a "starliner" for 500 passengers being part of "Starfleet Transport Command" seems an odd fit to me.
 
I think the intention was that the Astral Queen was an interstellar craft and not some towed object. I always imagined her as something along the lines of the Rising Star (image link) from the original BSG, but with nacelles.
 
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Calling her a "liner" would be somewhat at odds with the plot - "liners" are supposed to follow preset routes and schedules, so there'd be no good excuse not to take Karidian aboard. Some of the ships moving people and goods around in the Trek universe could be described as "liners" or "packets" - Kasidy Yates was doing scheduled rounds of sorts in "For the Cause", and got caught smuggling thanks to the heroes noticing something odd with the schedule. Many operate as "tramps", though, making odd detours supposedly in search of opportunities - and the Astral Queen could well be a ship of that nature.

Who says she's a passenger vessel? Certainly nobody in the episode, or in any other episode. So we could ditch the "liner" idea altogether and go for "tramp". Or then a free-roaming supply ship similar to the Antares - part of a uniformed service (and therefore well known to Kirk who's operating on the same area of frontier), but definitely detouring. Heck, perhaps ships of that exact class are alliteratively named, even..?

Timo Saloniemi
 
^ A privately owned starship, own by her captain/master, would be more of a fit with the conversation between Kirk and the AQ's captain. Something that transports passagers and cargo, it's next port of call is where ever the money is.

Like a tramp steamer, or a gypsy trucker.
 
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