Assimilation of Nog...

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Ferengi Prime 5, Jul 1, 2022.

  1. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nog is a Ferengi who is a Starfleet officer. If he did indeed turn his back on Ferengi culture (and I don't agree that he did) then I'm yet to be convinced why we should care one way or the other. Is the argument here that no individual should be allowed to embrace the other? That they should remain locked within whatever cultural norms they were born into?
     
  2. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    All Vulcans are Federation Vulcans...
     
  3. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Garth of Algar Premium Member

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    I wouldn't say all. There very well might be Vulcans who are not Federation citizens.
     
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  4. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    Of course Nog had a choice. He had quite a few choices. He could have become a civilian trader or shopkeeper. He could have kept working for Quark at the bar. He could have left the Federation entirely and done something completely different. I don't know about you, but to me working for Quark looks like the deadest of dead-end jobs.
     
  5. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    of course he had that choice. Rom didn’t join starfleet, Quarrk didn’t, Brunt didn’t. Ishka changed Ferengi society from within, we saw in Magnificant Ferengi that other Ferengi didn’t care about profit, but didn’t care about the federation either.

    We also saw how Nog retained his individuality as seen Homefront, Treachery, Paper Moon etc.

    In Unity we saw a “voluntary” borg collective which futher highlights the difference. We see examples of people leaving the federation too - in Jorneys End for example, worf mulling joining the nyberite alliance, independent human settlemments, etc

    the Hansons didn’t choose to join the borg, neither did Picard, or the Enterprise crew members we saw assimilated in Forst Contact.
     
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  6. Herbert

    Herbert Commodore Commodore

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    To everyone maybe it's better to simply follow this advice

    [​IMG]
     
  7. McCoy's Disco Collar

    McCoy's Disco Collar Commander Red Shirt

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    Don't have to think about it long before we see how ludicrous the whole question is.
     
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  8. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Captain Captain

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    A troll is one thing; a person honestly invested in their (questionable, fallacious and/or possibly offensive) beliefs is quite another.
     
  9. McCoy's Disco Collar

    McCoy's Disco Collar Commander Red Shirt

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    And you can tell the difference in the way they respond to thoughtful responses to those beliefs.

    If they just repeat those beliefs again....
     
  10. Ferengi Prime 5

    Ferengi Prime 5 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Look was Nog Culturally assimilated or was he Culturally Integrated with the UFP... Here is a brief look at the terms...

    Cultural assimilation is the process in which a minority group or culture comes to resemble a society's majority group or assume the values, behaviors, and beliefs of another group whether fully or partially.[1] The different types of cultural assimilation include full assimilation and forced assimilation; full assimilation being the more prevalent of the two, as it occurs spontaneously.[2] During cultural assimilation, minority groups are expected to adapt to the everyday practices of the dominant culture through language and appearance as well as via more significant socioeconomic factors such as absorption into the local cultural and employment community.[3] Some types of cultural assimilation resemble acculturation in which a minority group or culture completely assimilates into the dominant culture in which defining characteristics of the minority culture are less obverse or outright disappear; while in other types of cultural assimilation such as cultural integration mostly found in multicultural communities, a minority group within a given society adopts aspects of the dominant culture through either cultural diffusion or for practical reason like adapting to another society's social norms while retaining their original culture. A conceptualization describes cultural assimilation as similar to acculturation[4][5] while another merely considers the former as one of the latter's phases.[1] Throughout history there have been different forms of cultural assimilation examples of types of acculturation include voluntary and involuntary assimilation.[6] Assimilation could also involve the so-called additive acculturation wherein, instead of replacing the ancestral culture, an individual expands their existing cultural repertoire.[4]

    Nog was not integrating his Ferengi self with the UFP but finishing his Ferengi youth joining the UFP and turning his back on his Ferenginess. Culturally assimilated... Look at Worf he was culturally assimilated as well. He was always trying to find his true Klingon but in the end he always chose UFP... Spock turned his back on Vulcan and ran off with the UFP and again stood with the UFP... Spock and Nog never bragged about their heritage while Worf did his best to learn being a Klingon. Lets talk about Chekov for he let everyone know he was Russian... And Scotty let people know he was a Scot... It seems the later Star Treks avoid national and ethnic pride...
     
  11. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Chekov and "Scotty" were really little more than caricatures with their constant need to put their stereotypic Russian/Scottish "identity" into every bloody sentence. Especially Chekow ith his constant "x vas inwented in Rusha!" and his phony accent!
    That wasn't "pride". That was simply silly.

    I'm German. Do you see me throw German vocabulary into every message or ceaselessly reference some stupid German thing all the time? No. Because I'm a normal person and my country of origin doesn't define who I am as a person! And in my life I've lived in many places and each of those cultures contributed to who I am today not just the one I was arbitrarily sorted into at birth!
     
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  12. The Rock

    The Rock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So in other words, what you're saying is that resistance is futile for Nog..............for assimilation into Starfleet?
     
  13. Ray Hardgrit

    Ray Hardgrit Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'll echo all the people saying that he was accepted, not assimilated, and all his personal growth was hard earned.
     
  14. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Captain Captain

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    Hey guys, did you know that The Federation is worse than the Borg?
     
  15. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    Did you not watch "In the Cards" or "Treachery, Faith, and the Great River"? Nog was proud of being Ferengi and proud of being successful at wheeling and dealing. He just also wanted to be in Starfleet.
     
  16. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Totally untrue. You can make an argument as to what constitutes bragging, but Spock was always banging on about being Vulcan. And Nog reveled in his Ferenginess several times.

    ...but even if they didn't, so what?
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2022
  17. oberth

    oberth Commodore Commodore

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    you may call him a starfleet ferengi - obviously the (only) ferengi in starfleet would be a lot better

    if you are assilmilated you lose your herritary habits, i can't see that anywhere

    ---
    especially whenever any of those pure earthlings got emotional but you could say that halfbreed tried to fully self-assimilate into his vulcan part.
    kinda hard to hide the ears :devil: irrc, he's also the onlyone in starfleet to wear any kind of headwear, traditional ferengy headwear i might want to add. that alone should blow that assimilation nonsense through the nearest airlock.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2022
  18. Ferengi Prime 5

    Ferengi Prime 5 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    They are similar in many ways and achieve their goals using different methods... One is more straight forward while the other more subtle...
     
  19. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    We all know the Eddington speech.
     
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  20. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Eddington was an idiot who probably had several hard drives full of very creepy, self-insert LesMis fanfiction.
    "Come on, Sisko? Aren't I totally like Jean Valjean? Please tell me I'm like Jean Valjean!"