Are the Borg hypocritical?

[Timo]

Admittedly I'm also a non-native speaker, but the attempt to define perfection as an absolute seems incredibly futile to me. The word becomes meaningless if applied in the absolute sense in any sort of context. Perfection always has to be perfection in something. And perfection in A almost automatically means imperfection in B.

What do the Borg intend to be perfect in? If they want to be perfect gods, they will make for abysmal potted plants. If they want to be perfect cyborgs, I see no obstacles in their way, and it doesn't particularly matter that the perfect cyborg isn't the perfect noncorporeal being or the perfect sex partner or the perfect loser.

I see no merit whatsoever to Jonas' or Navaros' idea that there would only be one kind of perfection. That's not semantics, that's pure unadulterated lack of reason.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Sisu said:

As to your other point, I would suggest that there is enough "evidence" that the Federation pushes its members to become more "human". For instance, at the end of DS9, Rom is Nagus and will implement changes such as universal suffrage, pensions, economic reform.

The Federation had nothing to do with that. It was all Rom's ideas. (Well, his and his mother's.)

The Klingons as well have been made over into a nicer, gentler Klingon.

The Federation isn't to blame for that, either.

A good example of this is whenever Worf was asked to go against his instincts - he was praised when he did, condemned when he did not. Example: deciding not to give blood to save the Romulan, and how disappointed were Beverly and Jean-Luc? He had "failed" their human test and needed "more work" to become fully realised (read: human).

Well, Worf is a special case, because he is a Starfleet officer. He is expected to hold to Federation standards, because he is *already a Federation citizen*.

If it had been an actual Klingon officer in his place (like Kurn in his first appearance), no one would have questioned his methods. Notice how Kurn was free to run the ship as he liked - as a true Klingon would - when he served on the Enterprise ("Sins of the Father"), because he wasn't a Federation citizen.

 

[Kegek]

Sisu said:
A good example of this is whenever Worf was asked to go against his instincts - he was praised when he did, condemned when he did not. Example: deciding not to give blood to save the Romulan, and how disappointed were Beverly and Jean-Luc? He had "failed" their human test and needed "more work" to become fully realised (read: human).

And yet Picard championed Worf's right to commit suicide when paralysed as such a life did not fit rigid Klingon cultural perceptions in "Ethics". While both Crusher and Riker expressed grave doubts, even Riker was willing to concede this point in theory and aid Worf in his suicide.

What's different in this case? It's Worf's life, not the Romulan's. The Federation is more tolerant of one practicing one's beliefs - even to the point of death - when it's about oneself, and not the death of someone else.

That's a reasonable tolerance, and even then, though Picard and co. disapproved of his choice in "The Enemy", they did not force him to donate his blood nor penalised him for his action.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

I think the very concept of "hypocrisy" wouldn't even be relevant to the Borg.

It's mostly an excuse to be outraged and angry.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I just thought of something else. Kurn was free to be a uniquely Klingon XO on the Enterprise, but (in the earlier episode) when Riker transferred to a Klingon ship, he was expected to abide by Klingon rules of conduct.

Kurn wasn't forced to be less Klingon, but Riker was made to be less human.

Now who's being intolerant?

 

[Photon]

If the Borg wanted perfection they'd build 100 artificial drones instead of using humanoids as a starting pt. I wonder what a drone would be like w/advanced stages of rheumatoid arthritis or cardiovascular disease. Borg w/AIDS. Of course, the answer from the Borg sheep would be Borg technology would cure that-BS

If the Borg were headed toward perfection then, psychotic Janeway would not have defeated them on multiple occasions.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Maybe it's like the meaning of life: Perfection is the quest to find out exactly what perfection is.

 

[exodus]

Photon said:
If the Borg wanted perfection they'd build 100 artificial drones instead of using humanoids as a starting pt. I wonder what a drone would be like w/advanced stages of rheumatoid arthritis or cardiovascular disease. Borg w/AIDS. Of course, the answer from the Borg sheep would be Borg technology would cure that-BS

If the Borg were headed toward perfection then, psychotic Janeway would not have defeated them on multiple occasions.

They wouldn't assimilate a person with a aliment. They don't assimilate everybody, which is why they didn't assimilate the Talaxians or the Kazon.

Janeway beat them because the Borg aren't perfect, they strive for perfection. If they were perfect, they wouldn't continue to assimilate to reach their goal. Being perfect and striving for it are two very different things.

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

Navaros said:I agree 100% with the original poster's point. Since the Borg have partially organic and destructable bodies, they indeed never can achieve perfection like they claim to want to, and they are indeed hypocrites. Kudos to the OP for pointing this out

Kudos nothing, how do we know what path the Q took to becoming the Q? Did they start out as corporeal beings and work their way up or were they Q forever (as one episode suggested)?

Before the Borg were suddenly changed with the intervention of bizarre writing (the Queen worked for the supposed "insect" race that was changed for cyborgs, but not for the cyborgs themselves) they were pretty much the ultimate corporeal race in the Feds' galaxy, their technology and culture had advanced beyond anything anyone else could throw at them.

They are as perfect as they can be at the moment, they constantly strive to be more perfect as the opportunity arises.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Scary Squire said:
Kudos nothing, how do we know what path the Q took to becoming the Q? Did they start out as corporeal beings and work their way up

Probably.

Q once spoke of a "New Era" among his species (in his first VOY appearance). I always assumed that's what this was - the point at which they abandoned physical existence.

 

[TheMasterOfOrion]

ITL said:

Your definition of perfection. Who says the Borg would think the same way?

Good point, 'perfection' according to the Borg is simply their point of view.

 

[Hobs202]

Yeah, the Borg probably have a different POV of "perfection." They have never shown any interest in becoming non-corporeal beings like the Prophets or Q. They seem to view technology as the ultimate path to THEIR perfection - whatever their definition of perfection is.

"Perfection" is very ambiguous word. For example, let's take the Zerg from Starcraft. Like the Borg, Zerg seek (or used to seek) "perfection" and they bettered themselves by assimilating other species. However, these assimilations were mainly done to prepare the the Zerg for their war against the Protoss. The Overmind believed that if the Zerg assimilated the Protoss, the Zerg would become "perfect" - purely based on the fact that the Zerg and the Protoss were the two greatest creations of the Xel'Naga. This is kind of ironic considering that the Xel'Naga had already considered the Zerg "perfect" (just before the Zerg turned on them) while deeming the Protoss to be a flawed creation.

Personally, I think all this "perfection" stuff is simply a smoke screen for "survival." The Borg seek "perfection" because they figure that if they're perfect, then they will be able to survive forever.

 

[RainCrystal]

The Borg only function by the command of the Borg Queen and she has an agenda. Only she's allowed to think independantly with her drones being her slaves. I can't imagine the borg as an entire lot would have any emotions.

 

[exodus]

RainCrystal said:
The Borg only function by the command of the Borg Queen and she has an agenda. Only she's allowed to think independantly with her drones being her slaves. I can't imagine the borg as an entire lot would have any emotions.

On a side note, I don't know if the Queen is anymore independant of the Borg than say our brains are to us. Our brains function independantly from our bodies but yet in unison. The Borg hives relationship is almost symbotic.

 

[Sisu]

The Queen would be more like our medulla or hypothalamus - "bringing order to chaos" rather than controlling everything.