Of course Space Seed is canon given WoK, but I am curious as to (in terms of internal chronology/consistency) how/what level of canon the rest of TOS is viewed within the context of the first six Star Trek movies?
Are all episodes of TOS canon in ST 1-6?
- Thread starter Commander Kielbasa
- Start date
Anything shown on screen is canon. That is pretty straightforward.
In terms of continuity, aside from Khan, I did like Sarek talking to Spock at the end of TVH about not approving of his decision to join Starfleet, and saying he was in error.
In terms of continuity, aside from Khan, I did like Sarek talking to Spock at the end of TVH about not approving of his decision to join Starfleet, and saying he was in error.
The main variation-to-assumed-canon established by the movies is exactly when TOS was set. IIRC, the caption "In the 23rd century...", in ST II, was the first time the century had been established onscreen. Early TOS episodes were deliberately vague on timing and several "Best of Trek" essays tried to pin down or explain inconsistencies, such as "The Squire of Gothos" and his telescope. and Will Decker's line about Voyager 6's launch.
Also, how come no one mentions the incredible similarities between "The Changeling" and Vejur?
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. Do you mean what episodes are explicitly in continuity because they were referenced in the movies?
Oh, what the hell. I can't sleep so I may as well attempt to answer...
-TMP features Klingons, so presumably that brings all the Klingon episodes of TOS into the movie continuity. That would be "Errand of Mercy," "Friday's Child," "The Trouble with Tribbles," "A Private Little War," "Elaan of Troyius," "Day of the Dove," and "The Savage Curtain." An Andorian is also seen, so that brings in "Journey To Babel," "The Gamesters of Triskelion" and "Whom Gods Destroy" as well. (I'm not going to count Decker, since it's never explicitly said that he's the son of the guy from "The Doomsday Machine.") So that's 10 episodes.
-TWOK references "Space Seed," of course. Kirk & co. are teaching at Starfleet Academy, so according to this script search, that adds in "Where No Man Has Gone Before," "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" "Court Martial," "Shore Leave," "The Changeling," "The Apple," "Bread and Circuses," "Obsession," "Patterns of Force," "Whom Gods Destroy," (again) and "The Way To Eden". McCoy brings Kirk Romulan Ale as a birthday present and the Neutral Zone is mentioned, so we can incorporate the Romulan episodes "Balance of Terror," "The Deadly Years," and "The Enterprise Incident." David Marcus mentions Surak, so that further confirms "The Savage Curtain." Since Saavik expresses surprise that Spock lied, I suppose that would also bring in any episodes that tell us that Vulcans don't lie. According to the script search I just did, it looks like the earliest episode to do that was "The Menagerie." Spock's "Remember" to McCoy could perhaps be drawn from him telling Kirk to "Forget" at the end of "Requiem for Methuselah." That's 16 additional episodes, bringing the total to 26.
-TSFS again references "Journey To Babel" through the character of Sarek. Sarek mind melds with Kirk, so that brings in any TOS episodes featuring the mind meld ("Dagger of the Mind," "Return of the Archons," "A Taste of Armageddon," "Devil in the Dark," "The Changeling," "Mirror, Mirror," "By Any Other Name," "Spectre of the Gun," "The Paradise Syndrome," "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" "Requiem for Methuselah" again, and finally "Turnabout Intruder"). We see a Tribble in the bar that McCoy visits. We saw that Spock has the ability to place his consciousness or essence into a human being in "Return To Tomorrow." The regenerated Spock undergoes Pon Farr, so that brings in "Amok Time." The Enterprise self-destruct sequence is drawn from "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" (almost word-for-word, IIRC). That's 14 more episodes, bringing the current total to 40.
-TVH uses the slingshot time-travel method introduced in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" and reused in "Assignment: Earth." The movie again reuses Sarek and brings in Amanda for good measure. 2 more episodes = 42 total.
-TFF uses Klingons and Romulans again, and mentions Starfleet Academy. Sarek has a cameo in a flashback/dream sequence. I can't think of any references to TOS episodes not referenced before.
-TUC has Klingons, Romulans, Sarek, a mind meld, and Romulan Ale, but again, I can't really think of any brand-new TOS references.
Oh, wait. I just remembered that both Chapel and Rand appear in TMP and a few of the other movies. So that brings in their episodes. The new ones for Chapel would be "The Naked Time," "Operation -- Annihilate!" "A Private Little War," "The Immunity Syndrome," "And The Children Shall Lead," "Spock's Brain," "The Tholian Web," "For The World..." "Plato's Stepchildren," "Wink of an Eye," and "The Lights of Zetar." 11 more episodes = 53. For Rand, it's "Corbomite," "Enemy Within," "Man Trap," "Charlie X," "Miri," and "Conscience of the King." 6 new episodes = 59 episodes out of 79.
So there you go. According to the movies, 20 episodes of TOS never happened, but we still have Space Lincoln and space hippies, so it's all good.
Last edited:
Wasn't there something about at the time of TMP's production, TOS being an in-universe fictional account of Kirk's exploits? I'm sure I read that on this site at one point.
The novelisation of TMP presents us with a kind of 'Sherlock Homes' thing for TOS. The preface is supposedly written by Kirk saying that his previous exploits had been somewhat exaggerated so he's making sure that the book record of TMP is truthful to what actually happened. To be honest, the TMP novelisation is a bit mad like that!
IIRC, that was just Roddenberry trying to backpedal. Luckily no one listened to him.
What of Lazarus?
Agreed. If the TMP novel was how "real" ST was supposed to be, it would have died a quick death in the 1960s.
Last edited:
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. Do you mean what episodes are explicitly in continuity because they were referenced in the movies?
Oh, what the hell. I can't sleep so I may as well attempt to answer...
-TMP features Klingons, so presumably that brings all the Klingon episodes of TOS into the movie continuity. That would be "Errand of Mercy," "Friday's Child," "The Trouble with Tribbles," "A Private Little War," "Elaan of Troyius," "Day of the Dove," and "The Savage Curtain." An Andorian is also seen, so that brings in "Journey To Babel," "The Gamesters of Triskelion" and "Whom Gods Destroy" as well. (I'm not going to count Decker, since it's never explicitly said that he's the son of the guy from "The Doomsday Machine.") So that's 10 episodes.
-TWOK references "Space Seed," of course. Kirk & co. are teaching at Starfleet Academy, so according to this script search, that adds in "Where No Man Has Gone Before," "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" "Court Martial," "Shore Leave," "The Changeling," "The Apple," "Bread and Circuses," "Obsession," "Patterns of Force," "Whom Gods Destroy," (again) and "The Way To Eden". McCoy brings Kirk Romulan Ale as a birthday present and the Neutral Zone is mentioned, so we can incorporate the Romulan episodes "Balance of Terror," "The Deadly Years," and "The Enterprise Incident." David Marcus mentions Surak, so that further confirms "The Savage Curtain." Since Saavik expresses surprise that Spock lied, I suppose that would also bring in any episodes that tell us that Vulcans don't lie. According to the script search I just did, it looks like the earliest episode to do that was "The Menagerie." Spock's "Remember" to McCoy could perhaps be drawn from him telling Kirk to "Forget" at the end of "Requiem for Methuselah." That's 16 additional episodes, bringing the total to 26.
-TSFS again references "Journey To Babel" through the character of Sarek. Sarek mind melds with Kirk, so that brings in any TOS episodes featuring the mind meld ("Dagger of the Mind," "Return of the Archons," "A Taste of Armageddon," "Devil in the Dark," "The Changeling," "Mirror, Mirror," "By Any Other Name," "Spectre of the Gun," "The Paradise Syndrome," "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" "Requiem for Methuselah" again, and finally "Turnabout Intruder"). We see a Tribble in the bar that McCoy visits. We saw that Spock has the ability to place his consciousness or essence into a human being in "Return To Tomorrow." The regenerated Spock undergoes Pon Farr, so that brings in "Amok Time." The Enterprise self-destruct sequence is drawn from "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" (almost word-for-word, IIRC). That's 14 more episodes, bringing the current total to 40.
-TVH uses the slingshot time-travel method introduced in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" and reused in "Assignment: Earth." The movie again reuses Sarek and brings in Amanda for good measure. 2 more episodes = 42 total.
-TFF uses Klingons and Romulans again, and mentions Starfleet Academy. Sarek has a cameo in a flashback/dream sequence. I can't think of any references to TOS episodes not referenced before.
-TUC has Klingons, Romulans, Sarek, a mind meld, and Romulan Ale, but again, I can't really think of any brand-new TOS references.
Oh, wait. I just remembered that both Chapel and Rand appear in TMP and a few of the other movies. So that brings in their episodes. The new ones for Chapel would be "The Naked Time," "Operation -- Annihilate!" "A Private Little War," "The Immunity Syndrome," "And The Children Shall Lead," "Spock's Brain," "The Tholian Web," "For The World..." "Plato's Stepchildren," "Wink of an Eye," and "The Lights of Zetar." 11 more episodes = 53. For Rand, it's "Corbomite," "Enemy Within," "Man Trap," "Charlie X," "Miri," and "Conscience of the King." 6 new episodes = 59 episodes out of 79.
So there you go. According to the movies, 20 episodes of TOS never happened, but we still have Space Lincoln and space hippies, so it's all good.
If you're including episodes that feature Chapel and Rand you might as well include all the episodes featuring Kirk, Spock, Bones, Scotty, Uhura, Sulu and Chekov too
It all happened. All 79 episodes and 24 (?) cartoon episodes
Why wouldn't they be ? Though if you're looking for "consistency" TOS isn't exactly your best bet.
Why? The main seven were all considered regulars, even if they weren't in every single episode. Chapel and Rand weren't.If you're including episodes that feature Chapel and Rand you might as well include all the episodes featuring Kirk, Spock, Bones, Scotty, Uhura, Sulu and Chekov too
Is that really true?
Didn't gene r. disavow st v?
And all the franz Joseph design star ships shown on the monitors in the movies somehow didn't make it into "canon"
And tas wasn't "canon" for years until recently
I think the whole "canon" thing is a bit wobbly.
Gene didn't have a say, actually. The people who did, just smile, pat him on the head and hand him his check.
So what?
It all happened. Sybok, Warp 10, the dog pissing on some sacred trees, trans-Quark and Riker's boring flashbacks.
Yes. She was a credited regular with a 13-episode contract, even though some of those first 13 failed to include Rand. (Or were rewritten to replace her, ie Helen Noel.)
Rand was also in the first drafts of "Galilleo Seven" and "City on the Edge..."
Similar threads
