Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ? Now done!

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Holdfast, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. Holdfast

    Holdfast Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Seeker had an interesting suggestion in another thread:

    If anyone suitably knowledgeable has the time & inclination to draft such a thing, I'd be more than happy to pin it.

    It would be a useful abbreviated reference guide for the forum. I know there are other sites that already have detailed information on it, and there's our own massive thread in the forum, but a short-format FAQ might be helpful to newcomers. Like any FAQ, it should be relatively short, focusing on a few big key topics, not minutiae.

    Of course active discussion about everything STNG-R continues as normal in the existing big thread.

    Anyway, if anyone's interested, feel free to draft something. You could use this thread to draft it if you like, though maybe something like a Word or GoogleDoc collaborative document or even a wiki could enable a few contributors to work together. I leave it entirely up to you guys to decide whether it's something you're interested in doing and how to do it. No reward on offer either, I'm afraid.

    Just let me know if & when it's done and then I'll make whatever document you create into a new thread and pin it as a reference guide, credited to all those who collaborate on it. I'll probably lock it after pinning, to stop it becoming filled with insignificant trivia. It can be unlocked & updated at semi-regular intervals when the contributors feel significant new information directly affecting the FAQ comes to light.
     
  2. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    That would be good. We need to split that huge thread up a bit so that people can get the information they require.
     
  3. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    Q: Have the effects been redone, and are they CGI?

    A: Yes and No. While TOS-R ditched all the original effect shots in favor of new CGI, TNG-HD is making an effort to re-composite the originally filmed model shots in high-definition. The reason for this is due to the fact the original shots (and the entire show for that matter) were edited/mastered on a format which had roughly the same resolution as a VHS tape, thus were unsuitable for upscaling to high definition (For a rough sense of scale, VHS is about 320x280 pixels, whereas full HD is 1920x1080. This is also part of the reason why the DVD's looked so fuzzy).

    However, due to the fact there were thousands of FX shots throughout the series, and not all may be found, CG is also being used on TNG-HD, but in a much more subtle capacity than it was in TOS-R. The examples of CG used on "The Next Level" sampler adhere strictly to the original shot, so much so that you can only tell the difference if you have both side by side.

    While this does open up many possibilities for showing shots we never saw in the show previously, the general approach to TNG-HD is one of restoration and not re-imagining. While this approach could change as the show progesses, the overall tone seems to be we will be getting the exact same shots as before, just with any errors being fixed. An example of this is the energy beam in "Encounter at Farpoint" originally coming from the Captain's Yacht. In the HD release, this now comes from the phaser bank.




    Q: Is it in the original aspect ratio, or has it been stretched 16:9 widescreen? If not, why not! I want my TNG wide baby!

    A: As stated previously, TNG-HD is more of a restoration to its original intended form, not just a cash grab using every gimmick in the book to make a quick buck. While some of the image was cropped in the initial release of TNG, there is not enough to make it 16:9 easily.

    While yes, "These Are The Voyages" managed to pull it off, that was one shot, it cropped the top and bottom of the image and used some sneaky stretching of it in order to sell the effect. For a single shot, this is doable. However, this would be extremely impractical to do it for every single shot of every single episode. On top of that, it would ruin the careful composition of each scene. The bridge on the E-D was designed for a 4:3 view. That's partly why it had those random extensions in Generations, to make use of the extra screen real estate. Converting a 4:3 show, which made use of the entire image would be impossible without chopping characters off the screen.

    In short, a 16:9 conversion would be detrimental to the quality of the show due to the tricks, stretches cuts and edits that would be required to pull it off.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    I think when doing a FAQ, you're suppose to be using facts. Not using it as a forum for your personal opinions. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    Agreed. Keep it straight and to the point.

    Q. Will TNG-HD be in widescreen 16:9?
    A. For the Blu-ray releases, TNG-HD will retain its original 4:3 aspect ratio. 16:9 versions may be produced for broadcast and streaming channels, but these will likely be cropped.

    Q. Are they just upscaling the video for Blu-ray?
    A. TNG was shot on 35mm film before being transferred to videotape for editing. All live action footage as well as footage of the ships and physical effects were all captured on film. This film is being re-scanned at high resolution, recut and re-edited from scratch. Wherever possible, original effects photography is being pieced back together to recreate the effects shots in HD.

    Q. What episodes are on the sampler disc?
    A. The sampler disc contains the pilot episode Encounter at Farpoint, season 3's Klingon story Sins of the Father and season 5's The Inner Light

    Q. When will the full seasons be released?
    A. There is no concrete information on this yet. Season 1 is expected to be released later this year (2012).
     
  6. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    That makes perfect sense, thanks. But though I've hardly seen any of TOS-R, wasn't that remastered to widescreen? So why could they do it with that and not this? ie chopping peoples heads off in cropping it
     
  7. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    TOS-R wasn't reformatted to my knowledge.
     
  8. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    I'm sorry, allow me to cite sources:

    http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/ent_vs_tng.htm
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    This is an opinion.

    As is this. I've seen multiple sitcoms reformatted for 16:9 from a 4:3 source and I've yet to see important information cut from the image.

    As is this. We don't know that it would be detrimental until we actually have a film editor go in and reframe the sequences for 16:9.

    A fan site? Really? They're no more objective than you seem to be...

    EDIT: I take that back, they don't seem to be uniformly against 16:9, only acknowledging that it would be a challenge.
     
  10. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    All we have is fan sites and hear say for the most part. Do you really think CBS would put out a press release detailing the effort required step by step to re master it down to the last detail?

    I saw the 16:9 thing crop up a lot in the TNG-R thread, and for the most part there isn't a single objective answer from someone in the know. Its just common sense garnered from what we see is being done and what HAS been done previously. Sure, in the intitial TNG-R presser I saw on TrekMovie (Source: http://trekmovie.com/tng-remastered/ - actually, this probably answers most of the questions here) I believe Mike Okuda stated they may produce 16:9 versions for syndication, but I can't really see how shots like this: http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s3/3x26/bestofbothworldsone289.jpg can be achieved without chopping off Picard's body or Worf's head.
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    My problem is how you're approaching it. I have no problem with them being released framed in the 4:3 aspect ratio, I would just like a 16:9 option as well. No different than having multiple audio tracks or the branching effects from the TOS-R blu-ray sets. The point being, that if you're going to charge me for TNG all over again, give me plenty of viewing options.

    As to the shot you posted, in this day and age I'm sure there would be ways around a shot that tight.
     
  12. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    I'm not approaching it? It's CBS who aren't releasing it in 16:9, probably due to the enormous effort required?


    And I don't think you fully understand how it works, simply saying there should be a way around it doesn't mean there is.

    If I had to do it, I guess I'd rotoscope Picard and move him up and to the right of frame, making his head level with Riker so we could just cut the buttom off getting a 16:9 image, but then his Chair would have just magically moved between shots, and filling in the gap left by Picards head would be difficult as Worf should be standing there, and he moves quite aggressively.

    So even though I'm not a pro who's been doing it for 20 years, I'd say your looking at 2-3 hours work editing that shot alone. Thats what, 20 seconds long at best? And all you've done is ruin the cinematographers work in order to fill 30% more screen. Which could just as easily be stretched to fill in the holes by your TV at home, because whenever you've watched TNG in widescreen before, thats how it was presented. It's not an enormous problem so really you could get away with it like every TV station has for the past 15 years, and it wouldn't drive up the cost of producing the thing to twice as much, as really you'd have to go back and do even more work to get it all to fit and make sense.
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    I'm talking about how you're presenting it in your attempt at the FAQ...

    That's not your own personal bias creeping in?
     
  14. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?


    It is. It also answers the question. A question I asked myself, yes but one I've seen many times over in the TNG-R thread. The fact is, if CBS wanted to make a quick buck, they'd have up-converted the masters as they were and released em for 100 bucks a season. But instead they've gone to the unprecedented effort of re-editing each episode of a 7 season series together again from scratch in an effort to present it in the cleanest, highest quality way possible.

    Thats how it is. And I think thats pretty much a self evident fact. Saying it with a wink and smile really constitutes a staunch violation of imaginary FAQ rules? Ok, sure, it says it should be to the point, but these questions demand answers that go into detail in order to understand the full extent. Simply saying "Is TNG going to be 16:9? No." Isn't giving the full picture (pun not intended).

    Of course, I've never done an FAQ before, and noone has actually asked me any questions. I'm simply replying to questions I've seen asked how I would reply to them.
     
  15. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    What is "re-mastering?" Re-mastering is when a show (or movie) is re-scanned to another format using the original film negatives. Not simply adding new effects, up-converting, or even cleaning up small imperfections. Going back to original film negatives is a key part of re-mastering.

    Wasn't TNG shot on video-tape? No. The Next Generation's live-action material and model shots were all shot using standard 35mm film, the show, however, was edited on videotape meaning all of the film elements were put together to their final form onto videotape. No film exists of the episodes assembled int heir final format.

    How are the episodes being made into HD, then? The TNG HD staff has had to go back to all of the original film elements and basically re-edit the episode together entirely from scratch. 35mm film is very high resolution (even higher than HD currently is, in fact) so there's plenty of information there to get all of details needed for an HD picture, modern techniques are able to get the most information from the original film to produce a much better picture than could have been produced for television when the show originally ran, even if it was edited to film.

    Which model is being used in the effects? The effects shots of the show are using the original elements so all of the models used on the show will make their appearances in virtually the same places they were originally used. The replaced model shots using CGI will likely used an entirely scratch-built CGI model based on the original designs for the ship. This may mean the same inconsistencies in the ship's details will still exist in the series.

    Are the Special Effects going to be done with CGI? Yes and No. For the most part TNG's effects were done "in camera" by filming models or other physical objects/materials to create an illusion those separate elements were then combined together during editing to produce the final effect. The BD project is, mostly, going to use the original filmed elements but is also going to re-combine them using CGI backgrounds or for effects (like phaser beams, torpedo launches.) In some cases CGI has been used to replace shots that could not be recovered or to correct mistakes and errors in the original work. (For example, in the Enterprise's jump to warp during the opening credits there's an obvious jump between the lit "hero model" and an smaller model with fewer lit cabin lights used for distance shots. The new effects has better blended the two models better and removed the missing interior lighting during the jump to warp, or has simply replaced the shot with an all CGI element.

    Will we see anything new? The effects work being done either with CGI or by remastering the original film elements is trying to be as faithful as possible to the original effect. It's unlikely at this point we will see anything greatly new but not impossible either.

    Will mistakes me corrected? At this point it would seem so, in the episode "Encounter at Farpoint" near the end an energy beam is used to "feed" an alien held captured on a planet. In the original episode the beam originated from the saucer section around the Captain's Yacht, in the BD release the beam originates, a bit more accurately, from the saucer's dorsal phaser strip. If this one shot is any indication it would seem some mistakes are being corrected.

    Will it be in widescreen?: The BD is maintaining the OAR (Original Aspect Ration) of the show which was in the standard for the time 4:3 television format. Making the show into the present day standard of 16:9 format would mean either cropping the image (removing elements from either the top or bottom of the picture) or possibly widening the shot from the original film elements which would probably expose elements of production not intended to be seen. Eitherway making the show 16:9 could be viewed as distorting the original directors' intents for the episode and shot. At this time the original aspect ratio is being maintained.

    When is it going to be released? A sampler-disc set containing the two-hour pilot, "Encounter at Farpoint," the third-season episode dealing with Worf and Klingon politics called "Sins of the Father" and the Emmy Award winning fifth-season episode "The Inner Light" focusing on Picard living another lifetime on a long dead alien world is set to be released on Blu-Ray on January 31, 2012. Reports have said the entire series will be released in season sets over the course of the next two years.

    Will it be released on DVD? At this time only Blu-Ray sets are planned.

    How much will the sets cost? As of this typing the sampler-set is selling for $15 on Amazon (marked down from the MSRP of $23), no pricing details on the future season sets has been released.

    Will TNG-HD be released on Netflix or be on cable? The motivation for doing this seems to be along the same lines as the motivation for doing it for The Original Series, to ensure that the show will last into the next generation (pun intended) of TV viewers. It is very likely as HD and digital TV becomes more and more the standard TNG's HD version will be more like to be what is used for TV and on Netflix and other similar services.

    Who is involved in this project? The project has involved many experts working with CBS/Paramount, people who've worked with TNG in the past as well as consulting input from the Okudas. Much like the TOS project, Paramount seems dedicated to getting this as right as possible to make the show viable for modern viewing while staying faithful to the original.

    I heard that some scenes could not be recovered/ Reports were heard that at least one, small, scene from "Sins of the Father" could not be found on film, instead the scene was cleaned up from the videotape version of it. In the final BD the difference while it will likely be noticeable it's a quick enough scene that won't distract the viewer and the difference isn't reported to be too greatly stark. It remains possible that scene could be found as the project goes on and it's also possible more scenes could turn up missing requiring, again, to go to videotaped versions for the conversion.

    How long has Paramount been working on this, how long will it take to do the whole show? It's been said that the show will be fully released on BD over the course of the next two years, this at very least suggests that work on this project has been going on for some time.

    I thought fans had said doing TNG in HD would be impossible? Some may have said that, but most simply said that while it was "possible" it would just involve a lot of work and dedication from Paramount's end. As has been said the show is pretty much having to be re-assembled from scratch, which is different than what happened with TOS where the show was edited to film so could simply be re-scanned and the effects sequences replaced. TNG's has to be put together again the same way as it would have been done after the original episode's elements were shot. It was thought that Paramount wouldn't invest this much time and money into the project. We were wrong, Paramount has shown tremendous dedication to TNG HD.

    Will the other series be done as well? At this time it is not known, it's possible Paramount will make that decision based on how well TNG-HD goes. The other series will likely face similar hurdles; for example while DS9 and Voyager both featured CGI effects they used CGI effects that may not be of quality that'd hold up for HD. Enterprise came out during the time when HD was coming to rise and may not need much, if any, changes. Again, the same motivations that caused Paramount to do the HD process for TOS and now TNG may come into play for the other series and prompt them to convert them as well.
     
  16. AviTrek

    AviTrek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    Trekker, I like most of these, but you should replace Paramount with CBS since CBS is the one doing all the work.
     
  17. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    I can go through and make those changes as well as some other syntax-ual ones I see. Any other "Questions" one can see that need to be added?

    -

    EDITED Version:

    What is "re-mastering?" Re-mastering is when a show (or movie) is re-scanned to using the original film negatives and the reproduced onto a new medium (either tape, DVD, secondary negatives, etc.) It is not simply adding new effects, up-converting, or even cleaning up small imperfections. Going back to original film negatives is a key part of re-mastering.

    Wasn't TNG shot on videotape? No. The Next Generation's live-action material, model work, and practical effect shots were all recorded using standard 35mm film, The final show, however, was edited on videotape meaning all of the film elements were put together to their final form on videotape. No film exists of the episodes assembled in their final format.

    Then how are the episodes being made into HD? The TNG-HD staff has had to go back to all of the original film elements and basically re-edit the episode together entirely from scratch. 35mm film is very high resolution (even higher than HD currently is, in fact) so there's plenty of information there to get all of details needed for an HD picture; modern techniques are able to get the most information from the original film to produce a much better picture than could have been produced for television when the show originally ran, even if it had been edited to film.

    Which model is being used in the effects? The effects shots of the show are using the original elements so all of the models used on the show will make their appearances in virtually the same places they were originally used. The replaced model shots using CGI will likely use an entirely scratch-built CGI model based on the original designs for the ship. This may mean the same inconsistencies in the ship's details will still exist in the series.

    Are the Special Effects going to be done with CGI? Yes and No. For the most part TNG's effects were done "in camera" by filming models or other physical objects/materials to create an illusion; those separate elements were then combined together during editing to produce the final effect. The BD project is, mostly, going to use the original filmed elements but is also going to re-combine them using CGI backgrounds or for effects (like phaser beams, torpedo launches, etc.) In some cases CGI has been used to replace shots that could not be recovered or to correct mistakes and errors in the original work. For example, in the Enterprise's jump to warp during the opening credits there's an obvious difference between the lit "hero model" used for close ups and a smaller model with fewer lit cabin lights used for distance shots. The new effects has better blended the two models together and removed the missing interior lighting during the jump to warp, or has simply replaced the shot with an all CGI element.

    Will we see anything new? The effects work being done either with CGI or by remastering the original film elements is trying to be as faithful as possible to the original effect. It's unlikely at this point we will see anything greatly new but not impossible either.

    Will mistakes be corrected? At this point it would seem so. In the episode "Encounter at Farpoint" near the end an energy beam is used to "feed" an alien held captured on a planet. In the original episode the beam originated from the saucer section around the Captain's Yacht, in the BD release the beam originates, a bit more accurately, from the saucer's dorsal phaser strip. If this one shot is any indication it would seem some mistakes are being corrected.

    Will it be in widescreen? The BD is maintaining the OAR (Original Aspect Ratio) of the show which was in the standard for the time 4:3 television format. Making the show into the present day standard of 16:9 format would mean either cropping the image (removing elements from either the top or bottom of the picture) or possibly widening the shot from the original film elements which would probably expose elements of production not intended to be seen. Either way making the show 16:9 could be viewed as distorting the original directors' intents for the episodes and shots. At this time the OAR is being maintained.

    When is it going to be released? A sampler-disc set containing the two-hour pilot, "Encounter at Farpoint;" the third-season episode dealing with Worf and Klingon politics called "Sins of the Father" and the Emmy Award nominated, Hugo Award winning fifth-season episode "The Inner Light" focusing on Picard living another lifetime on a long dead alien world is set to be released on Blu-Ray on January 31, 2012. Reports have said the entire series will be released in season sets over the course of the next two years.

    Will it be released on DVD? At this time only Blu-Ray sets are planned.

    How much will the sets cost? As of this typing the sampler-set is selling for $15 on Amazon (marked down from the MSRP of $23), no pricing details on the future season sets has been released.

    Will TNG-HD be released on Netflix or be on cable? The motivation for doing this seems to be along the same lines as the motivation for doing it for The Original Series, to ensure that the show will last into the next generation (pun intended) of TV viewers. It is very likely as HD and digital TV becomes more and more the standard TNG's HD version will be more what is used for TV and on Netflix and similar services as the original SD versions become less viable in an HD world.

    Who is involved in this project? The project has involved many experts working with CBS/Paramount, people who've worked with TNG in the past as well as consulting input from the Okudas. Much like the TOS project, CBS/Paramount seems dedicated to getting this as right as possible to make the show viable for modern viewing while staying faithful to the original.

    I heard that some scenes could not be recovered. Reports were heard that at least one, small, scene from "Sins of the Father" could not be found on film. Instead the scene was cleaned up from the (high-quality) videotape master of the episode. In the final BD the difference, while it will likely be noticeable, is a quick enough scene that it won't distract the viewer and the difference isn't reported to be too greatly stark. It remains possible that scene could be found as the project goes on and it's also possible more scenes could turn up missing requiring, again, to go to videotaped versions for the conversion.

    How long has Paramount been working on this, how long will it take to do the whole show? It's been said that the show will be fully released on BD over the course of the next two years, this at very least suggests that work on this project has been going on for some time.

    I thought fans had said doing TNG in HD would be impossible. Some may have said that, but most simply said that while it was "possible" it would just involve a lot of work and dedication from CBS/Paramount's end. The show is pretty much having to be re-assembled from scratch, which is different than what happened with TOS where the show was edited to film so it could simply be re-scanned and the effects sequences replaced. TNG has to be put together again the same way as it would have been done after the original episode's elements were shot. It was thought that CBS/Paramount wouldn't invest this much time and money into the project. We were wrong, CBS/Paramount has shown tremendous dedication to TNG HD.

    Will the other series be done as well? At this time it is not known, it's possible CBS/Paramount will make that decision based on how well TNG-HD goes. The other series will likely face similar hurdles; for example while DS9 and Voyager both featured CGI effects they used CGI effects that may not be of quality that'd hold up for HD. Enterprise came out during the time when HD was coming to rise and may not need much, if any, changes. Again, the same motivations that caused CBS/Paramount to do the HD process for TOS and now TNG may come into play for the other series and prompt converting them as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2012
  18. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    If it was Paramount, the TNG HD project probably would have never seen the light of day.
     
  19. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Not really all that savage Moderator

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    Looks good Trekker. I think it's a good starting point.

    I also think it would be a good idea to link to some of the more informative posts we've had regarding the framing of the show. Someone posted a picture of one of the frames as it was shot with the various aspect ratios overlaid. I think this would go a long way in helping people understand why it would be difficult to go 16:9 with the Blu-Ray release.
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    Re: Anyone keen to do a TNG Blu-ray FAQ?

    Why? Do they not like money?