Anyone feeling sorry for Jodie? (spoilers for Fugitive of the Judoon)

[Starkers]

Serious question because I do feel she's been dealt a poor hand from the off. Lets set aside the first female Doctor thing because that was always going to be used as a stick to beat her by some people.

First off she's given three companions (the first time a new Doctor's had that many since Davison) I think even people happy with S11 would agree the Tardis is too crowded, and this all served to push 13 into the background at times. It's been noticeable how much better Jodie seems when separated from her companions this year.

Secondly one of her companions was more obviously well known than she was into the bargain, you can argue Americans didn't know who Walsh was but certainly in the UK that's not up for debate. Have we ever had a new Doctor with a companion better known than them (outside of a previous Doctor's companion who stayed on)? The only one that maybe you could argue the case for is Eccleston and Billie. but even then they were probably on a par. I love Graham, but right from the off his inclusion felt like a sop to those people unhappy with Jodie by giving them a middle aged white man to steal every scene. I know it's been played as a joke, but we've had two occasions this series when he's been mistaken for the Doctor.

Finally, just one and a half years into her tenure she's got to share the spotlight with another Doctor, and a more confident Doctor into the bargain, and Jodie's USP as the first female Doctor (probably) gets yanked away from her into the bargain. Again, don't get me wrong, I love RuthDoc, but outside of Colin with Pat has any Doctor ever been shunted into this position this early? (in fairness I guess Tennant had Sarah Jane pop up three episodes in)

And I won't even start on how she was written in S11 to suck any agency out of the character.

I'm sure people will disagree but it feels like she hasn't had the chance to truly fly solo yet and I just wanted to know what other people thought.

 

[Butters]

A little, but not as much as McGann. He got one shot, and he had to share that with McCoy, and play out the Amnesia.

Then overlooked for the series revival. Passed over at every opportunity for a multi doctor story. Time Crash, Day of the Doctor.

Previous companions were brought back, the brigadier, Sarah Jane, K9, but not him.

Even had the indignity of two new actors cast to play unknown former Doctor!

Does he have bad breath or something? Why can’t we have more McGann?

 

[matthunter]

I don't rate her poorly compared to Ruth!Doc. If anything, Ruth!Doc might have come off as more confident but she struck me as overly aggressive for the Doctor - granted that might be intentional if this is meant to be a pre-Hartnell version who hasn't been exposed to human companions yet (I'm assuming Lee was similarly an 'arched' Gallifreyan just with more memories left intact).

As for Walsh, well he does knock it out of the park but I haven't seen that as detracting from Jodie's performance.

 

[StCoop]

I'd have agreed last series but they've been clearly trying to improve the situation this time. It is telling though how often the Doctor and the Companions are separated for most of an episode, though part of that might be the limitations of Bradley Walsh's availability. (Apparently he get's a week out of every production block to do one of his 50 other shows.) With Tosin off to the US and Mandip also getting new work, hopefully we might get down to just one companion for the next series.

The worst thing about last series was how afraid they were for her to be anything other than nice, which plays into all those stereotypes about women having to be likeable in situations were men would be allowed not to be.

 

[Jayson1]

She is staring in a tv show of a famous iconic character going all the way back to the 60's. Being the first women to play the role she will be able to milk that aspect for years in terms of building on her resume and creating a lasting following. I'm sure she is making a good amount of money from her salary. She has been singled out several times even by people who don't like the show as being a solid addition to the role and doesn't take nearly the amount of heat as Chibnall. Even if the show goes in the tank or goes on other long break because of bad ratings if they have bad ratings. I can never tell which it is but even if it does end she will not be effected by it all since she would be moving on after a third season anyways. She is actually in a envious place right now and not one you really need to feel sorry for her.


Jason

 

[Starkers]

The worst thing about last series was how afraid they were for her to be anything other than nice, which plays into all those stereotypes about women having to be likeable in situations were men would be allowed not to be.

Absolutely, and it's nice to see a bit of edge to the character this series.

 

[The Wormhole]

During her first season, Whittaker had a similar problem as Capaldi, very good actor saddled with subpar scripts. So far in her second season, there is an improvement with the scripts, with the worse one being a rather average episode with a horrible final scene. While I do wish things were better for Whittaker, I don't think they're so bad that I feel sorry for her.

I know it's been played as a joke, but we've had two occasions this series when he's been mistaken for the Doctor.

Hell, there was even a whole novel about everyone mistakenly assuming Graham was the Doctor, and when he tried telling them who the Doctor was everyone was all "don't be silly, the Doctor can't be a woman." To be honest, I found that book painfully meta and on the nose.

Finally, just one and a half years into her tenure she's got to share the spotlight with another Doctor, and a more confident Doctor into the bargain, and Jodie's USP as the first female Doctor (probably) gets yanked away from her into the bargain. Again, don't get me wrong, I love RuthDoc, but outside of Colin with Pat has any Doctor ever been shunted into this position this early? (in fairness I guess Tennant had Sarah Jane pop up three episodes in)

It's a bit soon to say Ruth Doctor is stealing Whittaker's spotlight. Yes, all the news sites are making a big deal about first black Doctor and all but unless Ruth shows up in all episodes for the remainder of the season and gets a decent percentage of the screentime, I'd say it's still Jodie's show and Jo Martin is only a guest star, even if she is another Doctor.

A little, but not as much as McGann. He got one shot, and he had to share that with McCoy, and play out the Amnesia.

Then overlooked for the series revival. Passed over at every opportunity for a multi doctor story. Time Crash, Day of the Doctor.

Previous companions were brought back, the brigadier, Sarah Jane, K9, but not him.

Even had the indignity of two new actors cast to play unknown former Doctor!

They didn't bring McGann back for Time Crash because Tennant specifically requested Davison, since Davison is Tennant's favourite Doctor.

As for bringing him back instead of creating previously unknown former Doctors, that seems kind of unavoidable. Yes, many (including myself) have said that we could have had the Eighth Doctor in Day of the Doctor instead of the War Doctor and it would have worked just fine, and that is true. But when you factor in BBC pressuring Moffat to get a big name guest star for the special and Moffat's love of his "mayfly Doctor" idea, it becomes pretty clear creating a forgotten Doctor was the only way things could have gone for Day of the Doctor.

Meanwhile the whole point of Ruth Doctor is that she's someone we never knew about, someone who's existence is a surprise and shock to even the current Doctor. That can't work if you cast McGann in the role.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Time Crash was also written by Moffat as a conscious tribute to Davison and his era. He has repeatedly stated he thinks he's the best-ever Doctor. Beyond that, without having read the rest of the thread, I can safely say that McGann is the one I "feel sorry" for in the sense that he's the only Doctor who never got to star in the show, and through no fault of his own. The chief reason why I cherish and appreciate BF, despite their slippery efforts as of late, is because they gave him an era, albeit on audio, but still the ability for him to develop and portray the Doctor in actual stories.

As for Capaldi, yeah, he was struggling in his first year, but he was still a fantastic actor that you invested in because he drew you in (he's like Smith and Davison, who still carried inferior efforts with relative, seemingly, ease). Not so with Jodie, I feel.

 

[Mr Awe]

Geez, yeah, I do feel a bit sorry for Jodie, although I'm sure she's not wanting us to feel sorry for her! And, would remind us that these are not just First World problems but First World problems of the famous!

But, agree for all those reasons. Crowded TARDIS. I didn't know Walsh before and didn't realize how well known he is. But, he has a presence onscreen that at least rivals the Doctors. Her custom isn't great. Her TARDIS isn't great. But, the worst aspect for her Doctor are the scripts, particularly from last season that robbed her of her agency. Robbed her of quality antagonists that would be her foil.

Then comes in this new Doctor. More presence. Agency. Better costume. Better TARDIS. Owns the role from the first episode! Maybe they should've done that for Jodie?

 

[Marc]

granted that might be intentional if this is meant to be a pre-Hartnell version who hasn't been exposed to human companions

That would the same 1st Doctor who was prepared to bash a caveman's skull in with a rock and would threaten to strand Ian and Barbara the next time the TARDIS landed.

 

[matthunter]

That would the same 1st Doctor who was prepared to bash a caveman's skull in with a rock and would threaten to strand Ian and Barbara the next time the TARDIS landed.

Yes, you have grasped my meaning. Before some time (i.e. more than 24 hours in the story you refer to) with humans, the Doctor WAS that sort of asshole.

 

[Relayer1]

A little, but not as much as McGann. He got one shot, and he had to share that with McCoy, and play out the Amnesia.

Then overlooked for the series revival. Passed over at every opportunity for a multi doctor story. Time Crash, Day of the Doctor.

Previous companions were brought back, the brigadier, Sarah Jane, K9, but not him.

Even had the indignity of two new actors cast to play unknown former Doctor!

Does he have bad breath or something? Why can’t we have more McGann?

This ! Could we have an Eight spinoff please ?

Jodie's doing just fine. Some of the writing is good, some stinks - that's Who. Walsh is good, better than I expected, Cole rather worse, but the companions certainly don't overwhelm her. She held her own with "Ruth" too.

She also got to show her chops in "Fugitive" , and very good she was. Plus she's just got one of the biggest WTF moments in NuWho - jeez, the internet lit up ! If the rest of this series is as strong she'll have had better service than some of her predecessors.

Nah, Jodie's doing just fine...

 

[Mr Awe]

^ I agree that Jodie herself is doing fine. She's a great actress! I feel a bit bad for the stuff beyond her control that were foisted onto her character.

 

[Australis]

I was only thinking yesterday she seems like a minor character in her own series.

 

[Saul]

I kind of think it's the way she portrays the Doctor though. It's her choice as an actor but compared to most recent Doctor's she isn't larger than life so other characters have more time to shine.

 

[Starkers]

I was only thinking yesterday she seems like a minor character in her own series.

It feels less like that this year, but there were times in S11 when it felt that way--then again I guess you can argue that at times Hartnell felt like that. I think she's a very good actress, and she shows flashes of what she can do when she's given the right material and when she isn't swamped with other characters. Look at Resolution, three companions, plus Ryan's dad plus the two archaeologists! Yes someone like Tennant and Barrowman can stand out in a crowd, but the Doctor shouldn't have to be that exuberant and larger than life all the time. As I've said I really like Graham, but I think sticking Walsh in there was a mistake, though maybe S11 would have been blander without him?

 

[Qonundrum]

That would the same 1st Doctor who was prepared to bash a caveman's skull in with a rock and would threaten to strand Ian and Barbara the next time the TARDIS landed.

Only because of PTSD-like symptoms endured through adventures told offscreen prior to "An Unearthly Child" as well as paranoid over humans seeing that time travel is real and would want to figure out to harness the power as well. The first three stories episodes sprinkle in the details that form a mini arc of how the humans are evolved but he was the savage, while pulling the Doctor out of his trauma.

 

[Qonundrum]

I was only thinking yesterday she seems like a minor character in her own series.

Pretty much. With Ruth being a Doctor and proving to be a far more engaging incarnation within a few scant minutes, despite shoehorned in, it's impossible not to feel bad for Jodie, who's finally been given some decent material for series 12. But Ruth likely won't be around for the remainder of series 12. I'd love to see a spinoff series featuring her.

But the show has done it before as the show has been derided as being "Rose Who" and "Ace Who" when their respective eras spent more time on Rose and Ace... of course, we have three stick figures - of which one wears magic laser beam shoes on modern day Earth as cheesy comic relief... Now imagine Ian, Jamie, Harry, Adric, or even outright comic relief Jack having to do that. I know, it's not as easy as imagining Mr Bean or Maxwell Smart doing that...

 

[matthunter]

a far more engaging incarnation within a few scant minutes

Again, not seeing it. Anyone can do assertive oddball. Hell, they got Rory to play the Doctor in Legends of Tomorrow. Clara played on it too.

What it takes is the "old soul in young body" bit and Jodie has that down. Ruth!Doc might as well have been River Song.

 

[The Wormhole]

What it takes is the "old soul in young body" bit and Jodie has that down. Ruth!Doc might as well have been River Song.

I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect Ruth Doctor to be an "old soul in a young body." If she is indeed a pre-Hartnell Doctor, then that would make her the youngest Doctor we've ever seen.