Anyone else feel Saru got character assassinated?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Charles Phipps, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I feel like whoever wrote this episode wasn't really operating from the other depictions of Saru we've seen so far. Yes, his race is always afraid and very much on the flight of fight vs. flight. However, he's mostly been just pretty cautious and we even see him control his fear to do a damn good job in rescuing Captain Lorca.

    His threat ganglia also aren't up most of the time so he's not afraid all the time or at least not of the mind DEATH IS NEAR.

    So the premise feels all sorts of wonky.
     
  2. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The only thing I thought was lame was that Kelpians were depicted as stronger and faster than humans.

    Are there any species that aren't stronger and faster than humans in Star Trek?
     
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  3. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I was left with the impression that Saru so agonised by his inbred/engineered response to detecting and feeling fear would lack a certain nobility for the greater good, just to escape his personal pain. I pitied him but he did lose integrity.

    It would be better served if Saru's abilities took the form of 'cunning'. That his acute awareness of death and danger benefited strategies in the war effort. Just doesn't feel like that is happening and he as a character is being wasted.
     
  4. GeekUSACarl

    GeekUSACarl The Last Starfighter Fleet Captain

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    not so much. i think like many trek episodes one character and tosses them into a situation where they have been compromised. i wouldnt take it as a character assassination. but i do see how you arrived at that point. i certainly cant say that you're wrong.
     
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  5. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Mind you, the idea Kelpians are gazelles does at least give me an idea what they are supposed to be ecological niche wise.
     
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  6. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So this is a species that Archer encountered.
     
  7. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "And that gazelle was me."
     
  8. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's kind of a sad illustration and reflection of well, not to get too heavy, worth. We have the brutes like the Klingons. The damaged cynical warriors like Lorca. The clinical scientists and logicians. Those rise to the top. Then we have an alien that is seen as weak and almost a joke because he is a herd creature. I think Discovery in making Saru fleshed out haven't exactly picked up on the positive qualities of what he could be. Instead he seemed competitive with Michael when they were on the Shenzhou and a tad bitter if not bitchy. He did okay in charge when Lorca was captured.. but has gone backwards again. Michael was just about patting him on the head in the sickbay.
     
  9. XCV330

    XCV330 Commodore Commodore

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    We look for things, things that make us go.
     
  10. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He was intoxicated. It may have been simply a minor biochemical switch that the harmony cloud flipped, but then so are most drugs when you get right down to it.
     
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  11. Dilvish

    Dilvish Ensign Red Shirt

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    He should have gotten more crazy/scary in that episode IMO, without actually getting into a physical confrontation.
     
  12. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Come to think of it, shouldn't there be more Pakleds around someplace....maybe as a Klingon subject race?
     
  13. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, the Gorn is stronger but slower, at least unless you're in an ENT MU episode.
     
  14. guyute03

    guyute03 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I chalk up any character inconsistencies to it just being season 1. Writers don't know these characters yet. Give it time.
     
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  15. INACTIVERedDwarf

    INACTIVERedDwarf Commander Red Shirt

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    Wasn't happy on another race having super strength, but it's done.

    [​IMG]

    Was thinking it would be cool if the Kelpian homeworld was a jungle full of nature preserves like Planet Morassia from Star Trek: A Final Unity. It should include:

    - monkey like animals swinging from vines between trees

    - super advanced Kelpian nature reservations

    - pterodactyl type flying creatures

    - predators

    - jungle

    :)

    As for his character changing? Well, I really liked his dynamic in the pilot episode, really worked well with Georgiou and Burnham, almost like a Kirk-Spock-McCoy Platonic trio. We haven't seen as much of that since then.
     
  16. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

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    It didn't help that they seemed to expressly eschew that explanation at the end.

    Maybe it was just Saru taking on the burden of his actions even though they were influenced, but it made it sound like he made the conscious choice to deceive and attack his crewmates, not to mention attempting to thwart their mission.

    I'll be interested to see if there is any follow-up - it's the sort of thing which should carry rather large consequences.
     
  17. Satron

    Satron Commander Red Shirt

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    Not really. His behaviour changed dramatically. Spock's did too when he was placed thousands of year into the past.
     
  18. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm delighted every time the writers dare assassinate a character - generally it bodes extremely well. Worf really only took off after they made him an unrepenting murderer; Kira through her unwavering terrorism. And it's not just the "bad boy" allure: Spock (while admittedly a ruthless warmonger) became the hottest thing in the Trek universe when the writing centered on his emotional impotence.

    Trek at its best is about difference, which isn't surprising when it's science fiction and daring allegory at heart (and never mind the sometimes halfhearted practical execution). Characters "striving to be human" are dull unless they fail. Aliens should be allowed to be alien, regardless of the thickness of their latex layers. What the writers do with Saru after his "The Naked Time" remains to be seen, but here's hoping that they themselves don't really know yet, just as those writing Spock, Kira or Worf did not.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  19. BlueStuff

    BlueStuff Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's halfway through the first season; they're still establishing his character.

    That said, despite Saru's claims, it's not that hard for me to chalk this one up as one of those countless moments where a character is intoxicated by some alien spore/influence. Failing that, we can always just disregard it from canon (call it a Season 1 moment). I do much the same with Rom trying to kill Quark early on in DS9.
     
  20. Jadeb

    Jadeb Captain Captain

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    Could you really be afraid all the time? Seems like you'd be numb, or at least consider that "normal." Rabbits have all sorts of predators but don't seem to think much of it.

    Living in a constant, uninterrupted state of fear seems like it would be counter-productive. We benefit from the adrenaline rush that comes with the fight-or-flight response. To be like that all the time would be exhausting. For example, I've never been a war but have heard it described as long periods of boredom interspersed with brief periods of intense fear/adrenaline. That makes sense to me.

    I'm still not sold on the "prey" premise of Saru's character. I like Doug Jones, but I'm just not sure I buy into the conceit, at least as he talks about it in this episode.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
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