Any of the old books released as ebooks?

[bfollowell]

I'm asking specifically about the old Bantam/Ballentine TOS/TAS novelizations as well as the original novels they published. I know they don't compare to today's novels, or even the earlier numbered novels from the 80s & 90s, but I'd like to have those available electronically like all of my other TrekLit.

 

[Daddy Todd]

None of the Bantam and Ballantine/Del Rey Trek novels have ever had legitimate ebook releases.

These days, Bantam and Ballantine are both parts of the massive Penguin Random House publishing empire, a major component of the Bertelsmann media empire.

Since CBS often treats the Star Trek publishing program as little more than part of the overall Star Trek publicity machine, a competing conglomerate may find little incentive in providing publicity to a major franchise of a competing entertainment conglomerate.

 

[JD]

How would publishing those today even work? Would they have to be published by S&S since they have the Trek rights? Or would Penguin Random House still have the rights since they were the original publisher?
I know with comics, the old publisher's stuff apparently goes over to the new publisher since Marvel has been doing reprints of Dark Horse's Star Wars and Conan: The Barbarian comics, and Boom! Studios has been reprinting their Buffy and Firefly comics.

 

[tomswift2002]

How would publishing those today even work? Would they have to be published by S&S since they have the Trek rights? Or would Penguin Random House still have the rights since they were the original publisher?
I know with comics, the old publisher's stuff apparently goes over to the new publisher since Marvel has been doing reprints of Dark Horse's Star Wars and Conan: The Barbarian comics, and Boom! Studios has been reprinting their Buffy and Firefly comics.

A few of the Star Trek Logs 40th Anniversary reprints are still available as physical books, so I think Bantam/Ballantine only have the physical rights and if they wanted to release digital versions, they would need to negotiate those rights separately.

An interesting thing is that Penguin Putnam distribute the IDW Trade books of Trek comics, so it doesn’t look like CBS/Viacom are concerned on that front.

 

[Daddy Todd]

How would publishing those today even work? Would they have to be published by S&S since they have the Trek rights? Or would Penguin Random House still have the rights since they were the original publisher?

Well, it depends on the contracts written between Desilu and Bantam starting over a half-century ago. The first 11 Bantam Star Trek titles (Star Trek through Star Trek 10, and Spock Must Die!) are copyrighted by Bantam Books and Desilu or Paramount. So, the vast majority of the Blish/Lawrence material isn’t the sole property of CBS.

The copyright page of the 1991 Classic Episodes collections, and the 2016 one-volume abridgment list them as copyright by Desilu, Paramount and Bantam. So, they’re still shared copyrights. Theoretically, Penguin Putnam could prevent the books coming out from S&S. It would take entertainment lawyers to work it out, which CBS isn’t likely to spend to reprint books that have been OOP for such a long time.

Alan Dean Foster’s Logs are uniformly copyrighted by Paramount, so CBS would own those free & clear. But, at this point, there’s probably only 100 of us in the whole world who would buy e-copies.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Theoretically, Penguin Putnam could prevent the books coming out from S&S.

No, the contracts for Simon & Schuster did prevent their then-fledgling original line of Trek novels from being published until the last of Bantam's books were released ("Perry's Planet", "The Galactic Whirlpool", "Death's Angel" and "Star Trek Maps", the latter essentially getting remaindered early), which had caught them by surprise. Only the novelisation of TMP and the non fiction stuff were unaffected.

There must have been a clause in Bantam's contract clarifying that Bantam's reprint rights would not be hampered by a future switch to a new publisher, and another preventing them from stomping on Paramount's right to ever seek out new novel licensees.

And CBS Consumer Products oversees all Trek tie-ins, whether for Desilu/Paramount, Viacom or CBS series/movies.

 

[Greg Cox]

It really depends on the contracts. An X-Men trilogy I wrote for Byron Preiss Visual Publications back in the day, and which was originally published by Ace Books, was recently reprinted by Titan Books, who presumably did a deal with Marvel Comics, who owns the copyright of those books. Licensing deals often (but not always) contain some sort of expiration clause. I remember having to once renegotiate with Conan Properties to extend Tor's license to keep publishing certain older CONAN novels after the original license expired.

So it all depends on whether CBS owns the copyrights to those older Trek books free and clear.

 

[BillJ]

I would love to have the Blish and Foster adaptations on ebook.

 

[Daddy Todd]

So it all depends on whether CBS owns the copyrights to those older Trek books free and clear.

As of 2016, they did NOT own the first 11 Blish titles free & clear; Bantam (well, it's successor) holds a partial interest in those copyrights. It's possible that might've changed; if S&S wants to republish them in some form, they may have bought them out. But if they had any interest, it seems they would've done something in 2016 for the 50th.

 

[Daddy Todd]

Theoretically, Penguin Putnam could prevent the books coming out from S&S.

No, the contracts for Simon & Schuster did prevent their then-fledgling original line of Trek novels from being published until the last of Bantam's books were released ("Perry's Planet", "The Galactic Whirlpool", "Death's Angel" and "Star Trek Maps", the latter essentially getting remaindered early), which had caught them by surprise. Only the novelisation of TMP and the non fiction stuff were unaffected.

There must have been a clause in Bantam's contract clarifying that Bantam's reprint rights would not be hampered by a future switch to a new publisher, and another preventing them from stomping on Paramount's right to ever seek out new novel licensees.

The point I was referring to was S&S's ability to reprint the Bantam and/or Ballantine adaptations, not whether Penguin Putnam (successor to both Bantam and Ballantine) could prevent S&S from publishing OTHER Star Trek titles. Which, clearly, they cannot -- as the last 40 years demonstrate.

Can S&S reprint the Blish/Lawrence/Lawrence and Foster adaptations? Well, first they would have to want to -- they would have to see it as something that would make money. Then they would have to negotiate the rights with Penguin Putnam, which is apparently the largest publisher on the planet. So, I put the prospect way, WAY over into the "unlikely" category.

I suppose it's possible PP could issue ebooks of that material. But the fact they haven't suggests they either can't, or don't want to.

 

[tomswift2002]

The point I was referring to was S&S's ability to reprint the Bantam and/or Ballantine adaptations, not whether Penguin Putnam (successor to both Bantam and Ballantine) could prevent S&S from publishing OTHER Star Trek titles. Which, clearly, they cannot -- as the last 40 years demonstrate.

Can S&S reprint the Blish/Lawrence/Lawrence and Foster adaptations? Well, first they would have to want to -- they would have to see it as something that would make money. Then they would have to negotiate the rights with Penguin Putnam, which is apparently the largest publisher on the planet. So, I put the prospect way, WAY over into the "unlikely" category.

I suppose it's possible PP could issue ebooks of that material. But the fact they haven't suggests they either can't, or don't want to.

I remember in the 1999 reissue of “Mission To Horatius” that John Ordover made a comment about how S&S was able to reprint that book because Whitman was no longer around, and thus Paramount wholly owned the copyright. So it sounds like, in the 60’s, Desilu/Paramount may’ve negotiated a shared copyright with the publishers back then.

 

[JD]

An interesting thing is that Penguin Putnam distribute the IDW Trade books of Trek comics, so it doesn’t look like CBS/Viacom are concerned on that front.

The comics license is completely separate from the novel one, so that would have no impact on the novels.

 

[tomswift2002]

The comics license is completely separate from the novel one, so that would have no impact on the novels.

It may be in terms of IDW, but IDW probably let CBS know the full route before the contract was signed. And if they objected to Penguin/Putnam as the third party distributor, that might’ve been something that wiuldve been changed back then, because that would involve another company in “the pie”, besides CBS & IDW. Or did you think Penguin/Putnam was going to distribute the comics for free?

 

[KRAD]

It may be in terms of IDW, but IDW probably let CBS know the full route before the contract was signed. And if they objected to Penguin/Putnam as the third party distributor, that might’ve been something that wiuldve been changed back then, because that would involve another company in “the pie”, besides CBS & IDW. Or did you think Penguin/Putnam was going to distribute the comics for free?

It's not an issue. Every smaller comics publisher has some manner of distribution deal with a book publisher for bookstore distribution because Diamond is useless for bookstore distribution. CBS would, as you say, know that going in, and it's irrelevant to the deal.

 

[Koric]

@Greg Cox - Slightly off topic... Do You happen to know why Tor books have only released like 8 or 9 ebooks from the old Conan book series? As opposed to the entire series. I would love to own the entire run of the Conan novels in ebooks.

Thanks,
Koric

 

[Greg Cox]

@Greg Cox - Slightly off topic... Do You happen to know why Tor books have only released like 8 or 9 ebooks from the old Conan book series? As opposed to the entire series. I would love to own the entire run of the Conan novels in ebooks.

Thanks,
Koric

Honest answer. I haven't been involved with the CONAN books, or looked at those old contracts, for more than twenty years. Not sure what their current status is or whether those contracts even included ebook rights. At lot of older book contracts don't, in which case the publisher has to go back and renegotiate in hopes of amending the contract to include ebooks, which possibly weren't even a thing when the contracts were first signed. Sometimes this gets worked out; sometimes it doesn't.

Sorry I can't be more helpful, but that was a long time ago.

 

[Koric]

Thank you @Greg Cox for letting me know. I know there is something like 12 Conan tor series ebooks on Amazon, and I often wondered why the whole Conan series wasnt available to buy in ebooks anyway. It never made sense to me to have part of series for sale and not the whole series.

Thank you again Mr. Cox for your response. Congratulations on your new Trek novels, and new old Marvel books in ebook. I recently purchasd them and cant wait to read them.

All the best and much success to you. Please stay safe.
-Koric