Any newbie writers?

[Rush Limborg]

Good evening, Trekkers, Trekkies, Treknecks, and Conversationalists all across the fruited plain!

Okay. How many of y'all have "novel" ideas?

I.E., how many of ya have mental novels that you are just ITCHING to get to Pocket?

Call this a "beginner" thread, if you like--wherin the experienced folk can give advice on writing, publishing, etc., and the newbies can take it all in....

Okay. Let's begin....

 

[Therin of Andor]

Call this a "beginner" thread, if you like--wherin the experienced folk can give advice on writing, publishing, etc., and the newbies can take it all in....

As we've told you before, your best chance to get noticed by Pocket Books is to have two original science fiction novels under your belt (recommendation by John Ordover), make sure you have an agent (who gets a percentage after you've sold your book and not just for agreeing to agent for you), then write a proposal and three sample chapters of a standalone ST novel that takes into account only canonical characters and events.

 

[JoeZhang]

I.E., how many of ya have mental novels that you are just ITCHING to get to Pocket?

None, I have no "itch" to write fiction - I've written a number of factual books (about the management and information sciences and I've got one about policing and technology coming out) but I'm not interested in fiction.

 

[William Leisner]

Advice on writing?

Write.

Talking about ideas you have for stories you might write one day is just that: talk. Until you've actually written your "mental novel," you're not a writer, and no editor or publisher is going to see you as such.

 

[NathanielM]

Good evening, Trekkers, Trekkies, Treknecks, and Conversationalists all across the fruited plain!

Okay. How many of y'all have "novel" ideas?

I.E., how many of ya have mental novels that you are just ITCHING to get to Pocket?

Call this a "beginner" thread, if you like--wherin the experienced folk can give advice on writing, publishing, etc., and the newbies can take it all in....

Okay. Let's begin....

First of all;Not to burst yer bubble.. i understand this is for newbs to take it in but I won't lie to them.

to get published by pocket right away is RARE or will never happen...

Pocket books take very few new writers and as it was discussed in a reply: pocket books will circular file your script or chapters and not even look at you if you do not have previous novels under your belt. (at least three)

Newbs:

Writing is alot of work... TONS of work to get noticed and get any recognition out of anyone out there. If you don't have inside contacts, your name isn't asimov, herbert, bradbury anthony, foster or you are not a mainstream published author, you won't get far very fast

mY SUGGESTION is to START SMALL!!! don't just try to go out and get an agent unless you got at least half your novel completed, if that...

I suggest starting with writing articles, short stories and posting to magazines online and to newspapers. Sometimes they will take them as fillers, I have got good responses. Reader's Digest is another good suggestion.

Let them EDIT and change stuff... Best way to learn. it might not have the same message, but ghost writing helps you get going and learn for other stories and writing.

The money is gonna be small until you get at least three - four novels together. Don't expect a hefty pay check to start.

Stay away from already published stuff... star trek, star wars etc unless you have written permission to use the name or concepts. (either film or novels)...

if you write using the Trek thing, (example) have written permission from Paramount. Also research your idea and come up with an original idea to the previous idea.

(example here, Imzadi 2) peter david... I could sequel that but i would try to make another lover for Deanna Troi, a loose plot of another character from the trek universe that she would have had a possible romance with. Or better yet focus on another character like Will Riker and one of his many love affairs with many women. He had a great many in the history of the Trek Universe. He is the ulitmate Trek G[FONT=Times New Roman]igolo as we all know... kinda like Kirk in a way. [/FONT]

Like Deep Space Nine and all trek stuff herein is "Based on Star Trek, by Gene Roddenberry." You do not see anything in the film or tv media that does not have that, even in novels. ALWAYS credit the original creator of the idea and or concept.

Okay i shot my mouth off... Rant finished.

Nathaniel

 

[NathanielM]

Good evening, Trekkers, Trekkies, Treknecks, and Conversationalists all across the fruited plain!

Okay. How many of y'all have "novel" ideas?

I.E., how many of ya have mental novels that you are just ITCHING to get to Pocket?

Call this a "beginner" thread, if you like--wherin the experienced folk can give advice on writing, publishing, etc., and the newbies can take it all in....

Okay. Let's begin....

First of all;Not to burst yer bubble.. i understand this is for newbs to take it in but I won't lie to them.

to get published by pocket right away is RARE or will never happen...

Pocket books take very few new writers and as it was discussed in a reply: pocket books will circular file your script or chapters and not even look at you if you do not have previous novels under your belt. (at least three)

Newbs:

Writing is alot of work... TONS of work to get noticed and get any recognition out of anyone out there. If you don't have inside contacts, your name isn't asimov, herbert, bradbury anthony, foster or you are not a mainstream published author, you won't get far very fast

mY SUGGESTION is to START SMALL!!! don't just try to go out and get an agent unless you got at least half your novel completed, if that...

I suggest starting with writing articles, short stories and posting to magazines online and to newspapers. Sometimes they will take them as fillers, I have got good responses. Reader's Digest is another good suggestion.

Let them EDIT and change stuff... Best way to learn. it might not have the same message, but ghost writing helps you get going and learn for other stories and writing.

The money is gonna be small until you get at least three - four novels together. Don't expect a hefty pay check to start.

Stay away from already published stuff... star trek, star wars etc unless you have written permission to use the name or concepts. (either film or novels)...

if you write using the Trek thing, (example) have written permission from Paramount. Also research your idea and come up with an original idea to the previous idea.

(example here, Imzadi 2) peter david... I could sequel that but i would try to make another lover for Deanna Troi, a loose plot of another character from the trek universe that she would have had a possible romance with. Or better yet focus on another character like Will Riker and one of his many love affairs with many women. He had a great many in the history of the Trek Universe. He is the ulitmate Trek G[FONT=Times New Roman]igolo as we all know... kinda like Kirk in a way. [/FONT]

Like Deep Space Nine and all trek stuff herein is "Based on Star Trek, by Gene Roddenberry." You do not see anything in the film or tv media that does not have that, even in novels. ALWAYS credit the original creator of the idea and or concept.

Okay i shot my mouth off... Rant finished.

Nathaniel

 

[Therin of Andor]

Pocket books take very few new writers and as it was discussed in a reply: pocket books will circular file your script or chapters and not even look at you if you do not have previous novels under your belt. (at least three)

Pocket Books would not "circular file" any proposal-&-sample-chapters package sent to them by a legitimate literary agent. Ideally, they'd like to see work from established authors, but if you can convince an agent your first work is worth sending, you wouldn't need previous novels under your belt.

Stay away from already published stuff... star trek, star wars etc unless you have written permission to use the name or concepts. (either film or novels)...
if you write using the Trek thing, (example) have written permission from Paramount. Also research your idea and come up with an original idea to the previous idea.

Incorrect. Check out Simon & Schuster's official online guidelines. No "permission" is required to write a ST proposal; you just can't sell it anywhere except Pocket.

And, no, you are not able to submit a proposed sequel to a ST novel such as "Imzadi II".

 

[NathanielM]

Good evening, Trekkers, Trekkies, Treknecks, and Conversationalists all across the fruited plain!

Okay. How many of y'all have "novel" ideas?

I.E., how many of ya have mental novels that you are just ITCHING to get to Pocket?

Call this a "beginner" thread, if you like--wherin the experienced folk can give advice on writing, publishing, etc., and the newbies can take it all in....

Okay. Let's begin....

First of all: Not to burst yer bubble.. i understand this is for newbs to take it in but I won't lie to them.

To get published by pocket right away is RARE or will never happen...

Pocket books take very few new writers and as it was discussed in a reply: pocket books will circular file your script or chapters and not even look at you if you do not have previous novels under your belt. (at least three)

Newbs:

Writing is alot of work... TONS of work and it is HARD to get noticed or get any recognition out of anyone out there. If you don't have inside contacts, your name isn't asimov, herbert, bradbury anthony, foster or you are not a mainstream published author, you won't get far very fast

MY SUGGESTION is to START SMALL!!! don't just try to go out and get an agent unless you got at least half your novel completed, if that...

I suggest starting with writing articles, short stories and posting to magazines online and to newspapers. Sometimes they will take them as fillers, I have got good responses. Reader's Digest is another good suggestion.

Let them EDIT and change stuff... Best way to learn. it might not have the same message, but ghost writing helps you get going and learn for other stories and writing.

The money is gonna be small until you get at least three - four novels together. Don't expect a hefty pay check to start.

Stay away from already published stuff... star trek, star wars etc unless you have written permission to use the name or concepts. (either film or novels)...

Example:
If you write using the Trek thing, have written permission from Paramount.

Also research your idea WELL and come up with a pliable idea that could link seemlessly to the original idea.

Like Deep Space Nine and all trek stuff herein is "Based on Star Trek, by Gene Roddenberry." You do not see anything in the film or tv media that does not have that, even in novels. ALWAYS credit the original creator of the idea and or concept.

I have been at this at least 4 years or more and its been a tough grind and climb.

Just keep on gonig and do not get discouraged. It takes time and alot of effort. Don't give up with anything. Just keep putting it out there.

Here are some Amateur sites to look at. Might be helpful.

Free posting
http://www.nicestories.com <-- excellent site... and real publishers look here. There are many REAL authors to help you.
http://www.storymania.com <-- a good secondary site.
partial donation or pay site
http://writing.com <-- great for writing tips and tricks.


Nathaniel

 

[Therin of Andor]

Pocket books take very few new writers and as it was discussed in a reply: pocket books will circular file your script or chapters and not even look at you if you do not have previous novels under your belt. (at least three)

You've tweaked your original reply, but it's still incorrect. Pocket Books would not "circular file" any proposal-&-sample-chapters package sent to them by a legitimate literary agent. Ideally, they'd like to see work from established authors, but if you can convince an agent your first work is worth sending, you wouldn't need previous novels under your belt.

If you write using the Trek thing, have written permission from Paramount.

Not necessary. You're sending it to Pocket, the only publisher of ST novels and short stories.

Like Deep Space Nine and all trek stuff herein is "Based on Star Trek, by Gene Roddenberry."... ALWAYS credit the original creator of the idea and or concept.

This will appear in the novel whether you put it on your manuscript or not.

 

[Christopher]

Pocket books take very few new writers and as it was discussed in a reply: pocket books will circular file your script or chapters and not even look at you if you do not have previous novels under your belt. (at least three)

Wrong. As long as you follow the guidelines and submit your manuscript through an agent, it will be given fair consideration.

Writing is alot of work... TONS of work and it is HARD to get noticed or get any recognition out of anyone out there.

This is true, but...

If you don't have inside contacts, your name isn't asimov, herbert, bradbury anthony, foster or you are not a mainstream published author, you won't get far very fast

This is misleading. It's not about who you know. It's about how hard you work and how good your material is. It's about whether you can buckle down, follow the rules, and prove yourself through your actual work rather than wasting your energy on whining about how unfair it is that you don't have the right connections. After all, you can't get inside connections unless you earn them by demonstrating your ability as a writer.

MY SUGGESTION is to START SMALL!!! don't just try to go out and get an agent unless you got at least half your novel completed, if that...

If you're just starting out, then you'd need to have a spec novel completely written before contacting an agent. No agent is going to appreciate you wasting their time by offering them a manuscript you don't actually have ready for them to read.

However, if you want to get an agent to look at a spec novel, it shouldn't be a Star Trek or other tie-in novel, but should be something original.

I suggest starting with writing articles, short stories and posting to magazines online and to newspapers. Sometimes they will take them as fillers, I have got good responses. Reader's Digest is another good suggestion.

Let them EDIT and change stuff... Best way to learn.

This is good advice. The more stories you write, the more experience and insight you'll get, and the better you'll be when you reach the point of trying to sell a novel. Also, you don't need an agent to sell short fiction, so it's a good way of getting enough experience to convince an agent you're worth looking at.

Also, you will inevitably get plenty of rejections to start with; so it's better to start with short fiction so you can get through them faster. Rejection can be a valuable learning experience; if your rejection letters contain specifics about your stories' weaknesses, you need to listen to them and take their lessons to heart. If you assume you were only rejected because you don't have a famous name, if you don't acknowledge the flaws in your own work and strive to correct them, then you'll never get anywhere.

The money is gonna be small until you get at least three - four novels together. Don't expect a hefty pay check to start.

Don't expect a hefty paycheck ever. Writing prose is not something you're likely to get rich from. If you care more about profit than the love of the work, then go to med school or law school instead.

Stay away from already published stuff... star trek, star wars etc unless you have written permission to use the name or concepts. (either film or novels)...

Example:
If you write using the Trek thing, have written permission from Paramount.

This is misleading. Individual authors can't get permission to use copyrighted properties. Publishers get that permission by obtaining a license, and the only way you can legally write for profit in an existing franchise is to get hired by a publisher that holds its license.

Like Deep Space Nine and all trek stuff herein is "Based on Star Trek, by Gene Roddenberry." You do not see anything in the film or tv media that does not have that, even in novels. ALWAYS credit the original creator of the idea and or concept.

The publisher will take care of adding the legal disclaimers and such in the editing process. Not the writer's responsibility.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Good evening, Trekkers, Trekkies, Treknecks, and Conversationalists all across the fruited plain!

Okay. How many of y'all have "novel" ideas?

I.E., how many of ya have mental novels that you are just ITCHING to get to Pocket?

Well, I'd quike like to, depending on your definition of "mental" as opposed to non-mental novels and pitches...

But I think the "mental" one I've pitched - Planet Of The Tribbles - is so mental that I'll eat a teddy bear if it actually happens some day.

 

[TerriO]

Writers write. It's that simple, really.

If you're just going to kibbutz about an idea for years and years, you're never going to actually get anything written. It's what we tend to call the "butt in chair" method of writing. Get your butt in the chair and write. Don't sit and talk your idea into the ground until you're not interested in writing it anymore. I usually don't hate the story until I'm at least 2/3 of the way through writing it. (Dead serious, folks. Some stories I still hate, even years after publication.)

And it's not impossible to have your first pro sale be to Pocket. There's lots of proof on that, myself included. Whether or not you continue to have sales to Pocket is entirely up to you.

But nothing's going to happen if you just keep that story in your head and never put your butt in the chair and get to work.

Speaking of which, I have a story that needs tidying up so it can get to an editor in the next couple of days.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

...how many of ya have mental novels that you are just ITCHING to get to Pocket?

Dude, you keep coming back to this forum and ask the same question. There is no advice for newbie writers other than to WRITE. Thinking up new stories to sell doesn't make you a writer, as much as you pretend otherwise. Putting them down on paper and actually finishing them is the only thing that counts. No publisher--none, ZERO--will talk to you about "mental" novels.

 

[chris32482]

Don't expect a hefty paycheck ever. Writing prose is not something you're likely to get rich from. If you care more about profit than the love of the work, then go to med school or law school instead.

Ha, go tell that to Stephen King, or J.K. Rowling..

Just kidding.

In all seriousness though, how hard is it to just make a decent living as a writer? How many writers on here have other careers and just write on the side?

 

[David Mack]

^ It's very, very difficult. The biggest drawback is the job has no health insurance. Until the U.S. adopts a system of health insurance that isn't employer-based, many writers in this country will not be able to risk taking the plunge into full-time scribbling for fear of being financially ruined by one visit to an Emergency Room.

 

[PaulSimpson]

^ It's very, very difficult. The biggest drawback is the job has no health insurance. Until the U.S. adopts a system of health insurance that isn't employer-based, many writers in this country will not be able to risk taking the plunge into full-time scribbling for fear of being financially ruined by one visit to an Emergency Room.

Even in countries with a national health system, going into writing as your sole financial base is a very very risky proposition.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Dude, you keep coming back to this forum and ask the same question

No I don't--not exactly. Beforehand, I was asking such questions in other threads, that had different subjects.

Here, I'm simply formalizing all that, and putting it all together, for gereral reference.

Now, I am already aware that a writer must first WRITE, rather than just TALK. However...whenever I talk about the book I AM currently writing, people tell me to put it off until AFTER I get established with Pocket!

So...general summary is: Write, but start with original (i.e., non-Trek) works, to get an agent, to get a higher priority with Pocket, etc. Once you get your name out, and have established yourself as a writer, THEN you can send the "submission" synopsis to Pocket, and THEN you can write for Trek.

Have I got it right, then?

 

[Dayton Ward]

For the most part. Replace "can write for Trek" with "might write for Trek," and you have a more realistic outlook.

That's not meant as a dig or to be insulting, as landing such a gig isn't easy. A harsh truth about media tie-in writing is that editors generally aren't interested in working with unknowns -- unknown meaning not so much in name as in "can this person deliver?" Yes, there have been exceptions, but that's exactly what they are: exceptions. Editors want people they can count on to hit deadlines, write clean, work and play well with others, and not give them a lot of drama or attitude. Schedules have to be kept, coordination with other projects often affects timelines for a given writer's delivery/availability, and so on. Flexibility and adaptability are key ingredients in the media tie-in writing environment.

Setting your sights on one dream project (and we all have them, so we understand the desire) or trying to be the next exception are wastes of energy better utilized elsewhere. Concentrate on the tried and true methods, such as: A) Sit your butt down, B) Write it, C) Send it, D) GOTO A. Get established. Get some credits under your belt. Find an agent willing to represent your work. If you can convince an agent to send your pitch(es) to a media tie-in editor, then you're already ahead of most of the folks who want to try their hand at this.

Good luck (sincerely).

 

[Dark Gilligan]

However...whenever I talk about the book I AM currently writing, people tell me to put it off until AFTER I get established with Pocket!

Just for clarification, is the book you're writing an original work or is it Star Trek? If it's your own creation I'd hope that people would give you the honest encouragement to finish. If it's Trek or any other media tie-in, then ya, it would be wise to do something else.

 

[TerriO]

^ It's very, very difficult. The biggest drawback is the job has no health insurance. Until the U.S. adopts a system of health insurance that isn't employer-based, many writers in this country will not be able to risk taking the plunge into full-time scribbling for fear of being financially ruined by one visit to an Emergency Room.

Hell, even with a full time job and pretty good health insurance, my finances went straight into the toilet with $1,600 in dental bills in 2 months, half of which was an emergency wisdom tooth removal, and only $400 of which I was reimbursed by my insurance company for. I don't work for a company that's financially underwater, either. And I'm just going to miss the cutoff for the medical bill deduction on taxes this year by about $100 to add insult to injury (literally).

Right now, in the current environment, unless you win the lottery tomorrow, married very very well, or really enjoy living on next to nothing in the middle of nowhere where the cost of living is dirt cheap? Full-time freelance is a very risky proposition. If you're like some of us and living in NYC? You're hauling ass if you try full-time freelance. Although, Dave, he's got that closet masochism thing going on, picked it up from hanging around with Keith too much, I bet.

I consider myself working three jobs. My day job, the writing job, and trying to get my business off the ground. And then somehow having a life in the middle of all of that.

Definitely, establish yourself with original work first. Get a track record. It's not exactly easy to go from a tie-in career to original fiction, and I say that from experience. Although, I could add a few horror stories that some around here already know, but would really rankle some folks.