Any I/T professionals here?

[Brandonv]

I was wondering if any I/T professionals could take the time to answer some questions for me.

I was wondering how how you found your first entry-level I/T job? I graduated from college in December 2008 with a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science, and I am still looking for work. At this time I am still working at the same part-time retail job I have had since I was 16. I have only had two interviews in the last eight months, one which was only a phone screen. I always hear that the best way to find work is to network, but this is really difficult for me. I am a big time introvert and I don't know anyone in the I/T industry. I have mainly just been looking at places like Monster.com, which I hear is 99% hopeless.

I was also wondering if I should try going after any certifications, or if it is a waste of time?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

[Lindley]

Location is very important for IT jobs. Lots of government work in the DC area; most of the commercial opportunities are out in Silicon Valley.

I got my current job from a job fair while I was at Carnegie Mellon. It was pretty much the only nibble I got from any job fair I ever went to; but it worked out.

The present economy isn't the best for any job seeker, of course. Government contractors are probably the companies least affected by the situation, so you might want to focus there if you can.

I don't know about certifications, but you should try to get some practical experience somehow, even if it's volunteer work. There's a lot about programming that the schools don't bother to teach you----matters of style, maintainability, and safety aren't really emphasized as much in a CS degree as they would be for a Software Engineering degree, for instance.

 

[Luckyflux]

I went to the US Army. Came out of the Army and a friend got me an interview. The hiring manager was an ex-marine, so I was in.

Monster and Dice and not useless. But it is easy to think that a half an hour on those sites sending out resumes is a day's work. Alot of times you'll send your resume and them never hear back from them.

I always used headhunters in the past. Recruiters are great in IT. They have hooked me up many times.

Certificates are good, I'd get them if you can, but they aren't the holy grail, IE someone with more experience and zero certs will still get hired before someone with no experience and a bunch of certs.

I think you know what the BS stands for right about now huh?

Good luck my friend. IT is fun but stressful

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I'm a software engineer so I don't know if you consider that "IT", but I'll throw in my two bytes just in case.

When I was in college, I worked in the computer labs, helping people out when they had technical issues. Eventually, I interned with a local software company. Although I didn't finish college due to financial issues, I did get picked up full-time by the software company. I worked there for seven years until I got laid off.

To get my next job, I put together a kickass resume (harder than I thought it would be, but well worth the effort) and put it on Monster, Dice, CareerBuilder, etc. I also signed up with a recruiter.

I actually got lots of hits from having my resume online. However, that was because of my experience. If you don't have any, it may be more difficult for you. If you've done any freelance work, it is worthwhile to put it on your resume as long as you make it sound good and not amateurish. Almost every job that I was approached about came through a recruiter. I got my current job through one, too, and it was a very pleasant experience.

As far as I know, certifications are still in demand, too. MCSE, A+, all that good stuff. A certification can often get you places where experience alone can't.

If you want to hook up on LinkedIn send me a PM. I think my employer is looking to hire at least one more programmer, but they want a MUMPS developer and I don't think most people here even know what MUMPS is.

Although I didn't get my current job from knowing anyone, I did get hired along with someone who was laid off with me--and we both talked each other up at our interviews, which probably worked to our favor. Plus, some people at this company know people from my last company. The MUMPS world is very small, it seems.

Never underestimate the power of networking. It is often a much better way to get a job than sending resumes blindly. Put out some feelers among friends and family, and have them talk to their friends and family. Always have current copies of your resume on hand, no matter where you go. Turn every encounter into a job opportunity.

If you'd like me to look at your resume, I could give you some pointers there, too.

 

[Danoz]

Location is very important for IT jobs. Lots of government work in the DC area; most of the commercial opportunities are out in Silicon Valley.

I got my current job from a job fair while I was at Carnegie Mellon. It was pretty much the only nibble I got from any job fair I ever went to; but it worked out.

The present economy isn't the best for any job seeker, of course. Government contractors are probably the companies least affected by the situation, so you might want to focus there if you can.

I don't know about certifications, but you should try to get some practical experience somehow, even if it's volunteer work. There's a lot about programming that the schools don't bother to teach you----matters of style, maintainability, and safety aren't really emphasized as much in a CS degree as they would be for a Software Engineering degree, for instance.

Listen to Lindley. I got an IT job with a degree in political science. I also live in the D.C. area (now I work in Communications).

 

[TorontoTrekker]

Listen to Lindley. I got an IT job with a degree in political science.

Huh. My boyfriend's degree is in government and he works in IT too...

Brandonv, you say that you're working part-time in retail. Have you considered contacting your company's IT department and seeing about getting an internal transfer? After I graduated in 1990 (with a math degree from the University of Waterloo and about two years of co-op work experience with PL/1 and Fortran), the best I could do was to get a part-time job as a credit authorizer for Sears. After about a year, my ex and I moved back to Toronto and Sears put me on a leave of absence so that I would still be considered an internal employee if I wanted to apply to jobs at Sears here. After a few months, I landed two interviews with the IT department and got an offer from the second interview.

Depending on what area of IT you're interested in, you might consider volunteering to build a portfolio. If you're a web developer, there are plenty of non-professional organizations that need that kind of work done.

 

[TheBrew]

Location is very important for IT jobs. Lots of government work in the DC area; most of the commercial opportunities are out in Silicon Valley.

I got my current job from a job fair while I was at Carnegie Mellon. It was pretty much the only nibble I got from any job fair I ever went to; but it worked out.

The present economy isn't the best for any job seeker, of course. Government contractors are probably the companies least affected by the situation, so you might want to focus there if you can.

I don't know about certifications, but you should try to get some practical experience somehow, even if it's volunteer work. There's a lot about programming that the schools don't bother to teach you----matters of style, maintainability, and safety aren't really emphasized as much in a CS degree as they would be for a Software Engineering degree, for instance.

Listen to Lindley. I got an IT job with a degree in political science. I also live in the D.C. area (now I work in Communications).

Me too, oddly enough. I should be starting in a few weeks (damn end of the fiscal year is making me wait).

I got my "in" by playing golf with the vice-president of the company. It wasn't a job, but I got his info and said I would keep in touch while I finish my degree. I did a phone interview with him closer to graduation that went well which lead to them flying me out for face to face with, well, almost everybody (how I managed to stay on my feet all day and drink with them for four hours after taking a redeye and getting 3 hours of sleep I will never know).

The last piece was getting my A+ cert to show that I wasn't just BSing. It was pretty easy, got a book and flipped through it (why I need to know the min requirements for Windows 98 off the top of my head, I will never know).

To sum up:

Network (that even means just joining some group doing the same things you enjoy).

Be persistent.

Make sure to be confident and talk about your plans for the future. One of things I talked about in my interview was my desire to get a Masters relating to IT and how one of the places I was looking at was a few miles from their HQ. You need to be able to sell them the idea that they need to scoop you up because you are a diamond in the rough.

Government work is pretty good. I've worked for both the Federal and State Government over the years and while you do deal with some bureaucratic stupidity, the benefits are good and the work itself is enjoyable, but not too stressful.



... Okay that was a bit of a ramble there, but I hope you find something helpful in there.

 

[ByrdMan]

My brother in law worked at the place where I work now. I had no previous IT experience (I had been working at kinkos), but I've been there now for 12 years. Goes to show that it's not what you know, but who you know.

I will say though that my complete lack of any sort of certification or even college degree scares the hell out of me, in case I ever lost this job and had to get a similar one. Even 12 years of experience doesn't seem enough to me without some sort of formal education to back it up.

 

[Sean Aaron]

I had a BA in history but an aptitude with and interest in computers. I actually got my first IT job by temping as a tape jockey in a mainframe environment (this is during the Bush recession '92) and then via on-the-job experience got into UNIX sysadmin where I've been for the past 10+ years.

Certification might help differentiate you from other applicants because it's a crowded market, however it's so crowded now that even that won't help you stand out. I'm afraid I cannot advise you beyond being willing to take a lower-paid entry-level job to "earn your chops" and either demand a raise or be willing to quit and work elsewhere. You could always try to get a job with an outsourcer like Taos Mountain (if they still exist) -- nowadays that's likely to be what you're doing anyway.

I live in the UK now and contracting is a way of life for many, but during these difficult times there's just a lot of IT people out of work and competing for the same crumbs; often with long commutes. If I found myself out of work right now I'd seriously think about doing something else, frankly.

 

[RevDMV]

If you want to hook up on LinkedIn send me a PM. I think my employer is looking to hire at least one more programmer, but they want a MUMPS developer and I don't think most people here even know what MUMPS is.

He's new, don't hurt him like that....


Lot's of good info so far. Some I'll restate to add to it.

Number one: network. You say your introverted. Well, welcome to the party. Unfortunately, in school, the class they forget to teach is sales. Your going to have to sell yourself in this process. Heck, you'll have to keep doing it over and over in your careerer. Posting here is good step, keep going. As an example, my number one client is out of business in 7 months. Right now, I'm calling and talking to everyone I can think of, somewhere is a lead, and that lead could take me somewhere. It won't if I just sit around.

Number two: keep learning. From what I know of current teaching you know Java. Good start, now pick another language and learn that. Go into new frameworks. Ruby on Rails is all that for some folks. At this point anything new is good. It's more about the process, rather than the tech.
Read blogs, visit tech sites like Stack Overflow and Joel on Software. If your're really into it, join an open source project.
The more you know the more value you have.

Number three: back to school placement office, or you computer science placement board. Companies that are looking for recent grads will place their ads directly. It's a great source of info, and you have your school to champion for you as well. It's in their best interests to have graduates working.

Number four: location, location, location. Where you are now may just suck for jobs. Yes, it is tough all over, but some are tougher than others. Some places though are doing pretty well. Recently I've looked, and seen that the southwest is happening. Austin TX is really jumping. Even in the Mid-West, there are some good places to be. Check it out. It might not work for a lot of reasons, but don't limit yourself. Your young, take advantage of it.

Number five: what do you want to be when you grow up? You ask specifically about I/T. Is that where you want to go? I've been in both I/T and shrinkwrap software development. Each has it's pluses. They are different animals though. In I/T your're a cost center supporting the profit side of the business. It's all about ROI, and justification right now, and when things get rough it's often the first ballast dumped. You'll be expected to know and learn the core business(healthcare, manufacturing, insurance, etc), along with all your technical knowledge.
On the shrinkwrap side the company is about sales, development side is more about just software. You still have the problem domain of your product, but your day to day life is still dominated more by pure software development as opposed to a primary business. It's different.

There you go, a few things to chew on. Tell us more about you, someone maybe to help you out.

 

[CmdrAJD]

My brother in law worked at the place where I work now. I had no previous IT experience (I had been working at kinkos), but I've been there now for 12 years. Goes to show that it's not what you know, but who you know.

I will say though that my complete lack of any sort of certification or even college degree scares the hell out of me, in case I ever lost this job and had to get a similar one. Even 12 years of experience doesn't seem enough to me without some sort of formal education to back it up.

I am pretty much in the same boat you are. My brother worked at the place I am now. He's since left, but I've now been here almost 10 years. My degree is in a non-IT related field, and I've become pretty specialized in what I do at my job. The idea of having to look for another job is frightening.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

Make sure to be confident and talk about your plans for the future. One of things I talked about in my interview was my desire to get a Masters relating to IT and how one of the places I was looking at was a few miles from their HQ. You need to be able to sell them the idea that they need to scoop you up because you are a diamond in the rough.

Wise words. You really make an impression on people when you act like you really know your stuff and you're filled with ambition.

 

[Brandonv]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

A little more detail about my education: The languages that were focused on where Java and C++, with a strong emphasis on object-oriented design. Off the top of my head, the classes I took covered Data Structures/Sorting Algorithms, Computer Organization/Architecture, Artificial Intelligence, Relational Database Design, Computability Theory (Finite State Machines, Turing Machines, ect), and Software Engineering.

I have also started to learn C# on my own time.

I have mainly been looking for entry-level programming jobs, but I am trying to not be picky.

My location is in the mid-west, about 150 miles west of Chicago.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

OO design is definitely a good thing to have. Something you might do, if you can afford to do this stuff for rather shit money, is try sites like RentACoder and Elance and do some freelance work. They don't tend to pay well unless you have a rare specialty, However, you can put that stuff on your resume and keep a portfolio of projects you've done. It's not necessarily a great substitute for a salaried position, but it's definitely a place to start.

 

[Brolan]

Look for some small software firms in your area and offer to intern with them. Many times they are willing to train in a new body for free/cheap labor. You may think you know how to program but until you get some experience working on real applications few firms will even call you in for an interview.

 

[TheBrew]

OO design is definitely a good thing to have. Something you might do, if you can afford to do this stuff for rather shit money, is try sites like RentACoder and Elance and do some freelance work. They don't tend to pay well unless you have a rare specialty, However, you can put that stuff on your resume and keep a portfolio of projects you've done. It's not necessarily a great substitute for a salaried position, but it's definitely a place to start.

That is an excellent idea. Plus it also keeps your skills sharp.

 

[Lindley]

While object-oriented coding is an important skillset, generic coding is also important and emphasized rather less often. The difference is pretty much runtime polymorphism vs compile-time polymorphism, and C++ template errors can be ugly at first glance, but it's a powerful concept if you apply it carefully.

 

[Mallory]

Boy, have things changed a lot since I got started with my Comp Sci degree back in 1975.

I don't know that I have any real relevant advice to give you Brandonv, except to tell you that networking has gotten me every job I've had since the 70s. It's not always easy, but it is a tried, true and effective means.

 

[DanTheGrey]

Based on my experiences getting hired 11 and then getting my current job 8 years ago I know in both cases it was the 'other' stuff that I had done that got me in the door. I had courses in Engineering, GIS and geology that meant I could deal with some of their clients and 'speak their language'.

As others have said, right place/right time have been important. Internally at a large company networking comes into play. Having other skills that you can combine with IT such as being an effective communicator and writer (technical or managerial style) and even having an eye for graphic design all come into play. Don't forget to find the bigger companies/gov't agencies and apply to their job banks. It's a gamble but it can pay off. I had more hits dealing directly with the links off of the 'work for us' than I ever did in the Monster/Dice days.

 

[Brandonv]

I definitely agree that I need more experience. The problem I am facing is that you need experience to get a job, but need a job to get experience, creating a never ending cycle of doom. I need to find a way to break the cycle some how.

Thanks again for all the advice. I even printed a hard copy of this thread for easy reference.