Any chance of Animating the Eighth Doctor Audio dramas?

[cb31]

I just watched Shada and it started me thinking...as much as I love the Eighth Doctor audio series it would be cool to see some of them animated! Shada didn't have the best animation by any means but it was still nice to have visuals to go along with the story. The Eighth Doctor has become one of my favorites (even though McGann only appeared in one mediocre movie) and I would love to see more of him onscreen! It would be fairly cheap to do since they wouldn't have to pay the actors because the voice work is already done. Is this something anyone else would be interested in? Is it a possibility for the BBC? (do they even dabble in animation?) Would it be possible as a fan project?

Any thoughts?

 

[Starkers]

If they were going to animate they'd probably go with the 60s stories that no longer exist except for audios. The Invasion has episodes 1 and 6 (I think) which are entirely animated. It's a v good job I thought but there hasn't been any talk of doing anymore. It is costly to do and I guess they don't think they'll get the cost back--though I'd heard The Invasion was a good seller?

Someone else can probably clarify this better than I

 

[Stevil2001]

Episodes One and Three of The Invasion, actually. And though it was a decent seller, it wouldn't have made back its costs if extra money hadn't from BBCi hadn't been plugged into it-- and that extra money was a one-time thing. So further animated adventures of missing episodes are unlikely. I'd imagine animated versions of audio dramas are likely to do ever worse!

I'd just settle for Scream of the Shalka coming out on DVD.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I thought it was episodes 1 and 4 of "The Invasion," not 1 and 3.

The reason for the animated reconstruction of "The Invasion" is that BBCi had allocated money for the follow-up to Shalka. When that went off the table because of the upcoming Eccleston season, they had to spend the money, and they spent it on a recon of two lost episodes.

All things being equal, I'd rather have had the sequel to Shalka.

I don't know about animating the eighth Doctor audios, but I do know that, about five years ago, there was a fan who was planning a "reconstruction" of Slipback -- matching still images of the sixth Doctor and Peri to the audio play they did during the early 1980s. I don't know if anything ever came of it.

 

[Stevil2001]

I thought it was episodes 1 and 4 of "The Invasion," not 1 and 3.

You're right. That's what I get for not looking it up, and sticking with my mental clue that it was two non-sequential episodes on the first disc.

 

[Worf2DS9]

I think it would be cool seeing the 8th Doctor brought to animated life (if we can't see him in new live-action material), since he too is one of my favorites. Of course if you were to animate one of the BBC audios, you'd have the task of deciding which ones would lend themselves best to the medium and which aren't caught up in ongoing continuity. The best option would be to do something new; perhaps an unexpected reunion with Grace? We got a wee taste of that when Daphne Ashbrook guested as a different character in the audio "The Next Life", although if I recall correctly the Doctor wondered why she seemed familiar to him.

 

[23skidoo]

Episodes One and Three of The Invasion, actually. And though it was a decent seller, it wouldn't have made back its costs if extra money hadn't from BBCi hadn't been plugged into it-- and that extra money was a one-time thing. So further animated adventures of missing episodes are unlikely.

Which is utterly ridiculous when you have people making professional-quality animated adaptations on YouTube for free.

When I saw the following animated restoration of a lost Doctor Who coming attraction trailer I no longer accepted the "it's too expensive" argument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRBWOTFNotM

Yes, it's rough, but the fact is there are people who will do this sort of work for peanuts - just for the love of the work. Whoever made this trailer put a lot of time and effort into it, and I doubt he or she drew a paycheque. If the people who did The Invasion animated episodes are asking for too much money, screw 'em. There's plenty of talent out there. And I'm not even getting into the reconstructions of serials like The Dalek Master Plan by the Loose Cannon people which at times rival what BBC/2 Entertain are putting out.

And this goes for animating any of the Big Finish audios, not just the McGanns, though I'm not really in favor of this because they're meant to be audio dramas. Adding visuals ruins the effect. It's one thing to restore or approximate a lost episode, but animating a radio play just isn't a good idea. Orson Welles' War of the Worlds would lose all of its impact if we were required to watch someone else's interpretation.

Alex

 

[Joy]

OMG, that's effing AMAZING!

Joy

 

[23skidoo]

OMG, that's effing AMAZING!

Joy

Isn't it, though. As I say, it's rough but they've got Troughton's facial expressions down pat and I swear there were a few moments where the Uncanny Valley (it's explained on Wikipedia) is even eliminated.

If they can do this with a one-minute trailer, imagine if they were able to animate all of The Web of Fear, or the missing episodes of The Daleks Master Plan, or the first 26 minutes of episode 4 of The Tenth Planet leading up to the regeneration of Hartnell (the only part of that story which is missing and which should have been animated in lieu of The Invasion if TPTB were so concerned about costs).

Trust me, if BBC Video/2 Entertain doesn't do something like this to restore the missing episodes, somebody will. Remember the soundtracks to all the missing episodes (even Mission to the Unknown) are all commercially available.

Alex

 

[diankra]

Yes, it's rough, but the fact is there are people who will do this sort of work for peanuts - just for the love of the work. Whoever made this trailer put a lot of time and effort into it, and I doubt he or she drew a paycheque.

The problem with that - I say as someone who started out in fanzines and kept editing one once he'd become a filthy pro, which I probably shouldn't have done - is that...
People who do it for love, not money, can back out ('let you down) if they get disillusioned, have a family tragedy or illness, or whatever. Sometimes they just give up, sometimes they come back later. But eventually, there's a month when your real life seems more important than your hobby.
But if you're talking about releasing a commercial project, into shops or just via the BBC online shop and comic shops, it has to be done by the deadline, so it's there for the agreed release date. Hence everyone gets paid, and if you let down the other people involved, you lose your money and maybe have to pay for the inconvenience caused to the company and the other collaborators.
And that's before we get into the question of copyright (for starters, those photos which are being used to produce likenesses of the characters? The actors, or their relatives, have to be contacted for their OK for the usage, unless their contract Oked their usage back in the 1960s. Which, obviously, they didn't - hence the early 1980s Star Trek comics where one-off characters from the original series who reappeared almost never looked like the actor who played them...)

 

[23skidoo]

Yes, it's rough, but the fact is there are people who will do this sort of work for peanuts - just for the love of the work. Whoever made this trailer put a lot of time and effort into it, and I doubt he or she drew a paycheque.

The problem with that - I say as someone who started out in fanzines and kept editing one once he'd become a filthy pro, which I probably shouldn't have done - is that...
People who do it for love, not money, can back out ('let you down) if they get disillusioned, have a family tragedy or illness, or whatever. Sometimes they just give up, sometimes they come back later. But eventually, there's a month when your real life seems more important than your hobby.
But if you're talking about releasing a commercial project, into shops or just via the BBC online shop and comic shops, it has to be done by the deadline, so it's there for the agreed release date. Hence everyone gets paid, and if you let down the other people involved, you lose your money and maybe have to pay for the inconvenience caused to the company and the other collaborators.
And that's before we get into the question of copyright (for starters, those photos which are being used to produce likenesses of the characters? The actors, or their relatives, have to be contacted for their OK for the usage, unless their contract Oked their usage back in the 1960s. Which, obviously, they didn't - hence the early 1980s Star Trek comics where one-off characters from the original series who reappeared almost never looked like the actor who played them...)

First to clarify, "peanuts" doesn't mean free. But there are plenty of people who are looking for a chance to establish their credentials. I worked for months at a newspaper for minimum wage before I was hired full-time at a liveable wage. The ones who are seriously into establishing careers in animation will be reliable, because they will want work in the field afterwards. And even if they are just hobbyists, that doesn't make them unreliable. Some will be quite happy to do it to get their names on the screen.

If you want to see an example of people doing it for love, not money, make note of all the made-for-video productions that were produced between 1987 and 2005 that kept Doctor Who alive: Wartime, Shakedown, Downtime, as well as spinoff stuff like Cyberon, PROBE, Airzone Solution, and - primarily - Audio Visuals. Not everyone involved in these things were amateurs, but at the same time none of them made a lot of money off them either. But they did get their names out there and that's why folks like Mark Gatiss and Nick Briggs have the careers they do, and Audio Visuals went from being an unauthorized, done-for-the-love-of-it project to being Big Finish.

And even the BBC itself recognizes the value of these projects, hence the inclusion of various Reeltime short films in the "The Beginning" DVD box set, and the inclusion of the fan-made film Devious (which featured Jon Pertwee, no less) on the War Games DVD.

As far as the copyright argument goes, that's irrelevant. Payments have to be made for live-action releases, too, so it doesn't matter if it's 100% live action or 100% animation. Certainly didn't stop Invasion.

I'm sorry, I will not be swayed from my opinion that there is no excuse, not in 2009, for 2 Entertain to not be able to affordably and satisfactorally restore the lost episodes using animation. If they're so hard up for money, then why are they still releasing DVDs? They should go out of business and give it over to Anchor Bay or Shout! Factory, both of which seem to have no problems releasing some pretty terrific DVD sets of far-more-obscure TV shows than Doctor Who.

Alex

 

[diankra]

First to clarify, "peanuts" doesn't mean free. But there are plenty of people who are looking for a chance to establish their credentials. I worked for months at a newspaper for minimum wage before I was hired full-time at a liveable wage. The ones who are seriously into establishing careers in animation will be reliable, because they will want work in the field afterwards. And even if they are just hobbyists, that doesn't make them unreliable. Some will be quite happy to do it to get their names on the screen.

Sounds like we started the same way. But once you were getting a living wage, did you always find yourself as enthusiastic about doing a bit more for the love of it? (at least you were getting minimum - I am deply uncomfortable about this current trend for unpaid interns) I did stuff for Reeltime, and others, for the love of it, but once I had a day job anything fan-related had to be thing to drop if overtime ate up the evenings... So after a couple of releases, you need new people.

As far as the copyright argument goes, that's irrelevant. Payments have to be made for live-action releases, too, so it doesn't matter if it's 100% live action or 100% animation. Certainly didn't stop Invasion.

No, it's not. Between the early 1980s and the early 1990s, older BBC material could only be shown on satellite or put out on VHS if every actor involved was contacted and agreed to let it be re-run, as their original contracts didn't include the OK to show them in then-uninvented formats. Hence, one early episode of Blake's 7 was continually omitted, a few Who stories had scenes cut to remove awkward actors, and (reputedly) one of the stars of The Professionals vetoed all reruns of this embarrassing reminder of the days before he'd become a Serious Act-torr (though that one does seem to be an urban myth).
Eventually, Equity and the TV companies negotiated a blanket agreement for reuse of older material on VHS, satellite and DVD. Hence the live action releases are a lot easier now, as you just pay the standard fee to all involved, rather than, as before, having to contact all of them an negotiate a fee individually.
But... likenesses may well not be covered by that (how often have old TV series had animated reconstructions produced from fan recorded soundtracks?). There definitely was a copyright case over likenesses from photos, raised by Janet Fielding over Doctor Who photos in the late 1980s, which meant that the actors could claim royalties on each use after that. Again, later resolved by a blanket agreement, but there's a difference between Oking reuse of existing photos for a standard fee, and allowing reuse of likenesses in 'new' material.

 

[Starkers]

Hence, one early episode of Blake's 7 was continually omitted, a few Who stories had scenes cut to remove awkward actors, and (reputedly) one of the stars of The Professionals vetoed all reruns of this embarrassing reminder of the days before he'd become a Serious Act-torr (though that one does seem to be an urban myth).

I'm guessing that wasn't Lewis Collins I never understood how that played out, I always thought Bodie was way cooler than Doyle yet he pretty much vanished after Who Dares Wins and a few low budget actioners.

Can you clarify which B7 episode was continually omitted? Just curious more than anything...

 

[diankra]

Can you clarify which B7 episode was continually omitted? Just curious more than anything...

It was Seek-Locate-Destroy - when Blake's7 started turning up on Superchannel in the late 1980s it was always skipped over. Apparently one of the guest cast didn't like his performance and simply refused to give his permission for any re-use that wasn't in his original contract (presumably his part was too big to be edited out without leaving major plot holes, though I never heard who it was...). Reportedly, it was complaints from other actors who were losing out on repeat fees as a result that got Equity to negotiate new agreements for satellite (etc) use.

 

[Starkers]

Aha, I see. Well a few likely candidates but I'd lay money on the guy Travis got to rebuild the smashed console. He did spend a lot of time having to talk with a metal box jabbed up against his neck which he might have found a trifle embarassing!