• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Another thing about WYLB

Photon

Commodore
Commodore
When Sisko went to the Celestial Temple, he said his goodbyes to Cassidy but NOT his son, Jake. That's a huge writing error IMHO; both should have been summoned for the goodbye.

I can look past the episode's red eyes, hocus-pocus mojo, and tidy war ending-but the thing with Jake takes the episode down a notch.
 
I thought he would be more concerned with his wife given that they were just married that year and were expecting a child. Jake had been through similar partings many times before.

Also, consider that the episode was a little compressed because of time constraints. Some wanted to see more of the after effects of the Dominion assault on the Cardassian home world, for example.
 
I agree that a better ending with Jake would have been good. But that last bit with Kassidy should not have had Jake present - it would have ruined the moment. You don't share your most personal moments with your wife with your kid in the room. Way too creepy.

If they could have done something different with Jake, I could have lived with that. But I wouldn't have liked the two of them together.

And as AA already mentioned, with the time constraints....
 
I think the episode is much more powerful the way it is - with Jake not seeing his father. The writers decided that was the best way to go and they were right.
 
It's sort of interesting that for Sisko's final goodbye to Kasidy in the Celestial Temple, they used the famous music cue from The Visitor. The parallels are certainly not lost on me, so I found it highly appropriate.

In a way, The Visitor becomes all the more interesting in light of Sisko's ultimate destiny. It's almost a preview of what's to come.
 
I think the end scene with Jake just gazing out at the wormhole is such an emotional scene and really touching. I really feel for Jake and you get a real sense of how alone he must feel.
 
I agree with Photon. It was a major fubar for Sisko to visit Kasidy instead of his own son.

I suppose the reason they did this is because then they would have to have Jake be confrontational with the Sisko about abandoning him, instead of making it into a sappy "feel good" moment because Kasidy was fine with it. But that's no excuse, and it's still a major fubar IMO.
 
It was a major fubar for Sisko to visit Kasidy instead of his own son.

Ben was visiting his own unborn child, one who may never know its father.

What makes the episode so powerful for the Jake character is that it all ends, as it started for him in so many episodes, hanging by the railing on the Promenade, where he often hung with the now-grown Nog, and got admonished for loitering by the now-missing Odo, but instead in the company of Colonel Kira, who was now not only custodian of the whole station but perhaps the "orphaned" Jake as well.
 
If memory serves, I think they acknowledged in the DS9 companion that they regret that Sisko and Jake didn't get a proper goodbye. Although, if you choose to accept the excellent DS9 relaunch novels, the goodbye was only temporary anyway.
 
Agreed. I've always felt this way. Yes Kassidy was his wife but it wasn't Kassidy who was about to lose her 2nd and last parent. And it was Sisko who brought Jake to the station in the first place. The only redeeming aspect of the scene, as mentioned above, was the promise that he would return.
 
I think the end scene with Jake just gazing out at the wormhole is such an emotional scene and really touching. I really feel for Jake and you get a real sense of how alone he must feel.

I always thought that this was the best ending to a Trek Series. There was just something about it...
 
The original script had Sisko saying he would "never" return. Avery Brooks didn't like that so they changed it to imply that Sisko would return at some undetermined point in time. Therefore, his need to talk to his wife bearing his unborn child was more of a priorty than talking to his son who was now a grown man and who was capable of accepting his father's fate. I think it would have been terrible if they had gone with the original script, but seeing as how Sisko intends to return, it made a meeting with Jake less urgent.

According to Memory Alpha :

Originally, the episode was to end without any ambiguity as to whether or not Sisko was going to return to his corporeal life - the answer was a definite 'no'. The idea was that Sisko had become a Prophet, and that was how it would remain for all time, thus confirming the Sarah Prophet's warning in "Penumbra" and "'Til Death Do Us Part" that if he married Kasidy Yates, he "would know nothing but sorrow." The sorrow was that he was going to have to leave his unborn child behind, and would never get to be with her after her birth. Indeed, the final scene between Sisko and Kasidy was shot this way, with Sisko telling Kasidy he would never be back. However, a day or two after the shoot, Avery Brooks called Ira Behr and told him he wasn't happy with the scene. He felt that having a black man leave his pregnant black wife to raise their child alone carried certain negative connotations that he wasn't comfortable with. As Terry J. Erdmann puts it in the Companion; "In the 24th century, the situation conveyed only sorrow. However, in the 21st century, there was a secondary social issue that had particular resonance." As such, the scene was rewritten and reshot so as to clarify that Sisko will return some day.
 
Last edited:
The original script had Sisko saying he would "never" return. Avery Brooks didn't like that so they changed it to imply that Sisko would return at some undetermined point in time.

:rolleyes:

This typifies why most actors should have little—or, better yet, no—say in character development.
 
The original script had Sisko saying he would "never" return. Avery Brooks didn't like that so they changed it to imply that Sisko would return at some undetermined point in time.

:rolleyes:

This typifies why most actors should have little—or, better yet, no—say in character development.

I dunno, Brooks does have a point about the media's traditional depiction of black men. Even if Sisko is part-god now who symbolizes the greater good, he's still going to be a man who abandoned his unborn child. That's hardly a Roddenberry-ideal, I think. Trek's always been one to buck tired trends, like strong Asian men and women in authority.
 
The original script had Sisko saying he would "never" return. Avery Brooks didn't like that so they changed it to imply that Sisko would return at some undetermined point in time.

:rolleyes:

This typifies why most actors should have little—or, better yet, no—say in character development.
I'll disagree with this one... Avery Brooks did some wonderful things with Sisko, and his character was taken places... and if the writers had to tweak the story to satisfy a father coming home to his family, I am ok with that
 
^

The Sisko wasn't talking to his unborn child though, he was talking exclusively to Kasidy. He didn't even acknowledge the existence of his unborn child.
 
I dunno, Brooks does have a point about the media's traditional depiction of black men.

That doesn't mean you should pander to the reaction against such inanity by altering a critically important element of the storyline simply because you're afraid of how it might be wrongly interpreted, or because a single representative of that minority cries foul. Any reasonably intelligent regular viewer watching events transpire on Deep Space Nine knows Sisko's departure has everything to do with the Prophets' claim on him and nothing to do with a black man's unwillingness to be a presence in the lives of his wife and children. Concern with whether those utterly lacking in perspective or perceptiveness get it insults the intelligence of those who do. Star Trek should be above that, and the writers should have stuck with the 24th century story they'd been developing for years, rather than spontaneously catering to Avery Brooks' 21st century sensibilities. They'd already demonstrated Sisko to be a great parent: He devoted himself to Jake, and their bond is unquestionable. For all Deep Space Nine's purported gritty realism, they dropped the ball big time here.

Even if Sisko is part-god now who symbolizes the greater good, he's still going to be a man who abandoned his unborn child.

Well, like it or not, Sisko did abandon his unborn child. This vague "I'll be back ... maybe even yesterday" isn't exactly reassuring to those still living in the world where tomorrow actually follows today. In addition, he doesn't promise, "I'll be back as a husband to my wife and a father to my children," nor does he even imply it. [A desperate Kasidy simply jumps to that conclusion.] Such would be difficult considering that, from what I saw in "What You Leave Behind," the Prophets rescued his soul from the Fire Pits in the instant before his body, like Dukat's and the Kosst Amojin text, turned to ash. And since the Prophets don't create bodies for themselves, but instead inhabit the faithful when necessary, I don't imagine they're going to remake Sisko's for him.

His resurrection in the entirely non-canonical Deep Space Nine Relaunch aside, it's pretty apparent Sisko probably isn't coming back in his role as incarnated Emissary, and almost certainly not as someone with whom you can ... hmm ... play catch and pitch woo.

This man knew he had a destiny to fulfill, was specifically warned by the gods who created him that another marriage was a tremendously bad freakin' idea, and obdurately chose to get hitched (as well as get another woman with child) anyway. It's the very definition of heedlessness and irresponsibility. Then, when the time came to pay the piper, the writers had to back off and enormously dilute the storyline's impact.

This is yet another example of Sisko escaping the consequences of his actions, as with "For the Uniform" and "In the Pale Moonlight." Brooks doesn't like that Sisko's been called home, and so they override it? That's both spineless and poor writing.

That's hardly a Roddenberry-ideal, I think. Trek's always been one to buck tired trends, like strong Asian men and women in authority.

Well, I hardly think any avowed Niner has right of appeal to Roddenberry's ideals, when Deep Space Nine is easily, for better and worse, the most iconoclastic of the Treks. ;)

The "tired trend" they should have bucked was kowtowing to the actor's personal agenda to the detriment of the story.
 
Last edited:
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top