Another Kryptonian Question...

[UncleRogi]

This one is about heat vision.

I'm pondering, as I'm liable to do, about the physical mechanics behind heat vision. We know that
at one time this was explained away as a side effect of x-ray vision, but either way I think about how this comes about, physically. Kryptonians are seriously energized by yellow sun energy, and can express this in different ways.

Is the energy being generated by his brain to be conducted out the optic nerve through the eyeball?

What does he see as he's apparently focusing energy through the lenses of his eyes? CAN he see, being that energy is flowing out, therefore visible radiation is not incoming, as it were?

Sort of weird thoughts, and am soliciting other opinions on this matter.

Off topic: I stand with #manchesterstrong. Pissing off Celt folk never ends well.

 

[DonIago]

Perhaps it's akin to Cyclops (gasp, cross-franchise!) where while he's using his heat vision his vision acquires a reddish tinge?

 

[Christopher]

What does he see as he's apparently focusing energy through the lenses of his eyes? CAN he see, being that energy is flowing out, therefore visible radiation is not incoming, as it were?

If we assume it's literally heat vision, then presumably the light the beams emit are actually the intervening air being heated to incandescence, as in a lightning bolt. That means the light would block the vision of the Kryptonian firing the beams -- except he or she would have full-spectrum vision and could still see in the non-"visible" wavelengths that the incandescence didn't block. (This would mean the beams would be invisible in vacuum, though, and I don't think they're generally portrayed that way.)

In some versions, heat vision beams aren't visible. In the George Reeves series, Superman's heat vision was, as you mentioned, an application of his x-ray vision, and both were invisible. In Smallville, IIRC, heat vision was shown by a rippling of the air, like the heated air over hot asphalt or a barbecue grill. So there'd be nothing to block Superman/Clark's vision aside from that air distortion. Again, though, he could see through it in other wavelengths.

I'm sure there have been various explanations in the comics for how heat vision is generated and channeled, but I don't quite remember them.

Perhaps it's akin to Cyclops (gasp, cross-franchise!) where while he's using his heat vision his vision acquires a reddish tinge?

Cyclops's optic beam isn't a heat ray, but a "force blast," like a tractor beam in reverse. It pushes rather than burning. And his vision is red-tinged because he has to wear ruby quartz visors or sunglasses at all times to contain his force beams, not because of any innate property of his vision. Due to brain damage he sustained in childhood, he can't turn the beams off, except by closing his eyes.

 

[UncleRogi]

^^
That is a cool explanation!
Thanks, Christopher

 

[theenglish]

In Byrne's Superman, heat vision wasn't vision powered per say but rather a form of pyrokinesis that was channeled through his eyes. At least in the early days of that version, his eyes glowed but there were no visual depictions of beams actually being emitted from his eyes.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Various writers have tried to science an explanation for Kryptonian heat vision. Take you pick of one you like.

Grant Morrison, who views all previous stories of a character as canon. Provided an explanation during his New 52 origin for Superman.

Spoiler

Morrison's panel put into context examples by other writers of Superman's perception of the EM spectrum.

Radio waves from satellite transmissions.

Infrared - Supes with Predator vision.

John Byrne interpreted Superman the same way he interpreted Gladiator at Marvel. Both character's super abilities were achieved by their telekinetic powers. Which include pyrokinesis.

Spoiler

EDIT TO ADD: Because he's Superman is another explanation for Kal's Super feats. It's something DC doesn't have to explain.

 

[Silvercrest]

^ I didn't read a lot of the Byrne era, but I did pick up the Millennium crossover with Green Lantern. While otherwise forgettable, it was amusing when Clark and Hal went up against the Final Boss Manhunter. It was physically invulnerable and also painted bright yellow, so neither of them were too effective. Finally Clark zapped it with heat vision for several minutes straight, causing it to glow red-hot. At that point Hal was able to pulverize it.

On topic, I don't know whether Byrne specifically posited "pyrokinesis" as a basis for Clark's heat vision ... but even if he did, that's rather non-specific. Byrne did state that at least some of Clark's powers came from stored solar energy that surrounded him like an aura. Couldn't the heat-vision effect be derived from that? Clark would simply direct some of his aura and concentrate it on whatever spot he wanted to burn. But his eyes wouldn't be involved except to aim. And it wouldn't form a visible beam. (Effecfively that IS pyrokinesis.)

 

[Dark Gilligan]

Pyrokinesis was Byrne's official explanation, IIRC. He established that virtually all of Superman's powers were mental in nature rather than physical. That never sat well with me. In current continuity heat vision is essentially a manifestation of the solar energy stored in Superman's cells, focused through the lenses of his eyes.

 

[DonIago]

Cyclops's optic beam isn't a heat ray, but a "force blast," like a tractor beam in reverse. It pushes rather than burning. And his vision is red-tinged because he has to wear ruby quartz visors or sunglasses at all times to contain his force beams, not because of any innate property of his vision. Due to brain damage he sustained in childhood, he can't turn the beams off, except by closing his eyes.

Fair point, but I was speaking more with regards to the end result for vision than the metholdology involved.

 

[UncleRogi]

After pondering a bit more, and with the great input found here, I will make a few general conclusions.

Any relation between heat vision and x-ray vision is simply contradictory.

Heat vision would be force projected through said Kryptonians' eyes.

X-ray vision is a product of heightened senses, in that they can perceive gamma radiation, the retina
being a passive receptor of said radiation.

Does that make any sense?

Thnx, Folk

 

[Christopher]

Heat vision would be force projected through said Kryptonians' eyes.

X-ray vision is a product of heightened senses, in that they can perceive gamma radiation, the retina
being a passive receptor of said radiation.

Not really, because there isn't really much in the way of ambient x-ray or gamma radiation in the environment -- if there were, we'd all be dead from radiation poisoning. So senses that depended on passively receiving ambient radiation in those bands would see effectively pure darkness except in space or the vicinity of a gamma-emitting radioactive element like cobalt-60 or cesium-137. The Earth's atmosphere is actually pretty good at absorbing wavelengths in those bands, which is what protects us from being cooked by the intense radiation out in space, and is why x-ray telescopes have to be in orbit.

So if Kryptonian x-ray vision were literally that, then yes, the eyes would have to generate their own x-rays and construct an image from what was bounced back to them -- sort of the opposite of how a medical or dental x-ray works, since the film is on the opposite side of the subject from the emitter, so it captures a negative image of the shadow created by bones, teeth, and other stuff opaque to x-rays.

Although Kryptonian "x-ray" vision has often been shown to possess abilities actual x-ray sensors never could, like the ability to see visible-light colors -- e.g. Christopher Reeve's Superman being able to tell that Lois wore pink underwear. Pink is pale red, a visible-light wavelength, so if Lois's dress is opaque to visible wavelengths, then Superman shouldn't be able to see that color any more than anyone else could (unless he's actually using microscopic vision to peer between the threads of her dress). So Kryptonian vision has usually been portrayed less as literal x-ray vision and more as a supernatural ability to see in visible light through opaque objects. Perhaps John Byrne would've explained it as a form of psychic remote viewing.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I wonder if Kryptonians have Lecture-Vision. Because I'm picking up that vibe.

 

[UncleRogi]

Well, then. Pondering over.
I will cling to my silly belief it's a perceptual thing, though.

 

[Silvercrest]

So Kryptonian vision has usually been portrayed less as literal x-ray vision and more as a supernatural ability to see in visible light through opaque objects. Perhaps John Byrne would've explained it as a form of psychic remote viewing.

I believe Byrne's explanation was that Clark achieves it by combining his microscopic vision (to peer between the atoms of intervening objects) and his telescopic vision (to resolve the image of what's on the other side). Can anyone confirm if that was what he said?

If so, it makes about as much sense as anything else (i.e. "not at all" )

 

[Tosk]

Perhaps it's akin to Cyclops (gasp, cross-franchise!) where while he's using his heat vision his vision acquires a reddish tinge?

How do we know what it looks like to Scott when he's using his optic blast? The only time we've ever seen his P.O.V. was when he was wearing his glasses, which is why everything is tinted red.

 

[Christopher]

How do we know what it looks like to Scott when he's using his optic blast?

As I said about heat vision, if the beam gives off visible light as shown, then that light would probably fill Scott's field of view and blind him to anything else. The idea that the light is only going forward from his eyes doesn't work, because the beam is visible from the sides, unlike a laser. So whatever particles make up the beam must be emitting red light in all directions at once, including backward.

Granted, Cyclops always seems to know where to aim the beams, but it's been established that part of his mutant power is a preternatural ability to calculate angles, forces, etc. to enable him to aim the beam with uncanny precision (a handwave to explain the impossibly elaborate trick shots that various writers and artists showed him to achieve). So maybe that uncanny awareness of his environment is what enables him to aim in the absence of clear vision, not unlike Daredevil's "radar sense," or for that matter Spider-Man's spider-sense as Stan Lee originally portrayed it (when it was a heightened sensory awareness of movement and conditions around him rather than the effectively psychic danger-oriented sense that later writers turned it into).

That doesn't really work, though, since he can see when wearing a visor or sunglasses, and presumably the beam would still be passing from his eyeballs into the ruby quartz. But since we don't see a glow behind the visor/sunglasses, maybe the visible emission doesn't kick in until the beam has traveled more than a couple of centimeters from his eyes. Or maybe the ruby quartz reflecting the beams back into his eyes cancels them out somehow.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I think Roger Stern had the best explanation for post-Crisis heat vision...it was Superman's ability to emit the stored solar energy that gave him his other powers. That fits with how it's treated on Supergirl, where she can lose her powers via extreme heat vision usage.

 

[publiusr]

There is such a thing as biophotons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biophoton
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article...ht-induced-ultraweak-photon-emission-rat-eyes

 

[CorporalCaptain]

If Superman's heat vision spectrum at the points of emission in his eyes was somehow a discrete spectrum, or even a continuous spectrum, in either case having continuous band gaps, then I wouldn't think there was any reason in principle why Superman couldn't simply be blind on the heat vision spectrum itself and continue to see normally on those wavelengths in the gaps where his eyes weren't emitting any energy. Same for Cyclops.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm just curious how he can use heat vision to cut hair or as in a recent issue of Suicide Squad, how Zod used it to cut a bomb out of his head! Is heat emitted by Kryptonians hotter than any other heat? Hot enough to burn through Kryptonian skin and bone!