And Spock's Brain Shall Lead

[gomtuu20]

Most fans of TOS usually name Spock's Brain as the worst TOS episode, and for good reason. But may I be so bold as to propose that And The Children Shall Lead was even worse?

Granted, Shatner's performance in SB was far worse than the performances in ATCSL, but the story, the music and the overall "untrekness" of ATCSL made it an even worse stinker. At least the first 20 minutes of SB was watchable. Even when it went from mediocre to terrible, it at least had some "delights" to watch.

What do you think?
(PS - No fair naming Shades of Gray as the worst Trek ever, we're strictly talking TOS here)

 

[SchwEnt]

ATCSL isn't so good.
But on paper, it's a really good idea.

The Enterprise finds a colony where all the adults are dead from mass suicide. That's pretty dark and grim.

But all the children are alive, dancing and playing about the bodies of their dead parents. That is VERY disturbing and unsettling.

Behind it all, a malevolent alien manipulating for control--by preying upon the most vulnerable of humans, the children. And then in turn manipulating others by exploiting their deepest fears against them.

The whole premise and idea is really horrifying. Dark, even by DS9 standards.

It SOUNDS like it could have been a very scary and disturbing eps, unlike anything seen before in TOS.

So what the hell went wrong? ST has a bad track record with kid eps? Poor choice in casting? Bad acting? Flawed direction?

The idea behind ATCSL is fine, but the eps itself sucked.

 

[Too Much Fun]

I really don't mind "Spock's Brain" that much...I certainly think "...And the Children Shall Lead" and "Plato's Stepchildren" (my two picks in a tie for the worst episode of any of the first three Star Trek shows) are much worse by a wide margin.

"Spock's Brain" is pretty ridiculous, but I kinda like its craziness. The wacky device that Spock has to wear looks cool, and I think the idea of being able to dictate a person's actions by remote control is sorta neat. It's a stupid episode, but inoffensively stupid and even occasionally entertaining in a campy way.

The other two, however, were just so grating and embarrassing to watch, they were thoroughly unpleasant experiences from start to finish with no redeeming values at all. I especially remember how bonkers I was driven by that recurring bit where the children would shake their fists (to activate their powers...or something) and the same discordant music would flare up every time. UGH, that made me so sick!

 

[antiquityscion]

Turnabout Intruder, Miri, & And The Children Shall Lead are the 3 I absolutely can't stand the most.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

ATCSL isn't so good.
But on paper, it's a really good idea.

The Enterprise finds a colony where all the adults are dead from mass suicide. That's pretty dark and grim.

But all the children are alive, dancing and playing about the bodies of their dead parents. That is VERY disturbing and unsettling.

Behind it all, a malevolent alien manipulating for control--by preying upon the most vulnerable of humans, the children. And then in turn manipulating others by exploiting their deepest fears against them.

The whole premise and idea is really horrifying. Dark, even by DS9 standards.

It SOUNDS like it could have been a very scary and disturbing eps, unlike anything seen before in TOS.

So what the hell went wrong? ST has a bad track record with kid eps? Poor choice in casting? Bad acting? Flawed direction?

The idea behind ATCSL is fine, but the eps itself sucked.

This is a very good point. I wish I knew more about theater to recognize and articulate specifically what the problems were. I'm pretty sure direction is a major part, but also some scripting is to blame. The idea of stretching out the episode with things like visions of flying down a tunnel of knives to cheesy music made it really hard to take it seriously. And I agree with Too Much Fun: "casting spells" with the paper-scissors-rock hand warm up, also synchronized to cheesy music, was another blunder. It's almost as if the production staff didn't understand the genre, or maybe they didn't understand which genre, they were ostensibly supposed to be in.

 

[Shatnertage]

I tend to like the bad-but-silly stuff, like SB, way better than bad-but-serious stuff, like "The Empath." One of them is at least fun to watch because you can laugh at it and not feel so bad. The other is just a slog.

Sulu's Space Knives would be a cool name for a band, though.

 

[Merky]

Wow, I can't stand Spock's Brain because I feel so much second hand embarrassment for Nimoy whenever I try to make an attempt and watch it. Whenever I see him with the whole brain control device, it's like " Oh god... this is just too much ". The story is so disturbingly ridiculous even for Trek standards.

I enjoyed And the Children Shall Lead though. Yeah, it's campy but S3 was full of camp. I think the evil "alien" that seemed like he came straight out of a fairy tale was ridiculous, but everything up until that point was pretty good when you realize these kids are truly disturbed.

Space Seed, Spectre of the Gun, and Spock's Brain are the episodes I can't stand. I almost wanted to put All Our Yesterdays as another stinker because Spock's whole " gaaar im an angry Vulcan hos before bros " stint was just annoying to watch. It was trying to be a bootleg City on the Edge of Forever but just failed hard. There was nothing tragic about it and it just didn't make any sense. Kirk is told he wasn't acclimated to the period so he would die, yet Spock "reverts" and McCoy doesn't... What? Not to mention Spock falls deeply in love with this chick to the point that not only does he not want to go back, but when he does, his love her still carried over. That final scene, acting wise, was brilliant but jfc... You go back to This Side of Paradise to a woman he did share a romantic relationship with prior to the show but he manages to break it off with her without any emotional baggage. Continuity was not S3 strong point.

But, anyway, Space Seed's whole misogyny bumped it right off.

I liked Turnabout Intruder. I dunno, Shatner getting in touch with his girly side was a treat. He could have taken the performance to his usual hamy standards and killed the whole episode by just acting like a terrible drag queen but he was actually graceful so that says a lot. I think it was a terrible episode choice for a series finale though.

 

[Gojira]

I tend to like the bad-but-silly stuff, like SB, way better than bad-but-serious stuff, like "The Empath." One of them is at least fun to watch because you can laugh at it and not feel so bad. The other is just a slog.

Sulu's Space Knives would be a cool name for a band, though.

I agree there are a few more bad episodes ahead of Spock's Brain for me, which is actually a fun episode to watch even though it is pretty cheesy at times. One thing I like about the episode is Chekov and his maps on screen telling us about the the other planets in that system. I like learning more about the Trek universe and you don't see TOS show that type of information often.

 

[Redfern]

Let's consider some filmed material that "got it right". Anybody remember the original "Village of the Damned" with George Sanders? Similar elements: children seemingly unphased by surrounding death, having the ability to manipulate the adults around them to gain whatever they desire, and, if opposed, they don't blink an eye "lashing out" to kill their would be opposition. A creepy film, even today.

So what made that one work and "...Children..." fail?

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[plynch]

ATCSL isn't so good.
But on paper, it's a really good idea.

The Enterprise finds a colony where all the adults are dead from mass suicide. That's pretty dark and grim.

But all the children are alive, dancing and playing about the bodies of their dead parents. That is VERY disturbing and unsettling.

Behind it all, a malevolent alien manipulating for control--by preying upon the most vulnerable of humans, the children. And then in turn manipulating others by exploiting their deepest fears against them.

The whole premise and idea is really horrifying. Dark, even by DS9 standards.

It SOUNDS like it could have been a very scary and disturbing eps, unlike anything seen before in TOS.

except Miri and Naked Time

One thing I HATE is that the Gorgon has to turn physically ugly at the end. Evil IS often attractive, and that's a good lesson to be remembered. Like sweet Roddy McDowell playing Lucifer on Fantasy Island. Made me a churchgoer, if Satan's like that!

 

[Too Much Fun]

I liked Turnabout Intruder. I dunno, Shatner getting in touch with his girly side was a treat. He could have taken the performance to his usual hamy standards and killed the whole episode by just acting like a terrible drag queen but he was actually graceful so that says a lot. I think it was a terrible episode choice for a series finale though.

I liked this episode too...more than you actually. I don't even mind it as a series finale. I like that it ends on a wistful note and gives Scotty and McCoy more to do than usual.

I also really enjoyed Shatner's performance in it. He was funny and actually convincing playing a conniving immoral woman mad with power. Also, Janice Lester/Sandra Smith= hottest guest star ever. It's a fun episode and a solid one especially compared to "...And the Children Shall Lead".

 

[Merky]

I liked Turnabout Intruder. I dunno, Shatner getting in touch with his girly side was a treat. He could have taken the performance to his usual hamy standards and killed the whole episode by just acting like a terrible drag queen but he was actually graceful so that says a lot. I think it was a terrible episode choice for a series finale though.

I liked this episode too...more than you actually. I don't even mind it as a series finale. I like that it ends on a wistful note and gives Scotty and McCoy more to do than usual.

I also really enjoyed Shatner's performance in it. He was funny and actually convincing playing a conniving immoral woman mad with power. Also, Janice Lester/Sandra Smith= hottest guest star ever. It's a fun episode and a solid one especially compared to "...And the Children Shall Lead".

There was just something about Shatner playing a HBIC bent on trying to kill his (her?) ex-lover that was just gleefully amusing and enjoyable to watch. If Kirk was a woman, that would be her... hahahaha.

Turnabout Intruder definitely has to be a gem amongst a bunch of rocks in that entire season in my opinion.

 

[scotpens]

Granted, Shatner's performance in SB was far worse than the performances in ATCSL . . .

IMO, Shatner was much worse in “And the Children Shall Lead” than in “Spock’s Brain.” He’s completely over-the-top in the scenes where Kirk is losing his shit. (I said “shit,” not “shirt.”)

. . . It SOUNDS like it could have been a very scary and disturbing eps, unlike anything seen before in TOS.

So what the hell went wrong? ST has a bad track record with kid eps?

Don’t quite know what you mean by “a bad track record.” The only other TOS story in which children played a central role was “Miri.”

Poor choice in casting? Bad acting? Flawed direction?

Yes.

I mean, celebrity lawyer Melvin Belli as Gorgan? I suppose it wouldn’t have been such a bad idea if the man could actually act.

. . . I especially remember how bonkers I was driven by that recurring bit where the children would shake their fists (to activate their powers...or something) and the same discordant music would flare up every time.

I’m not alone in thinking that fist-pumping gesture looked like a pantomime of masturbation. Maybe the kid actors were trying to tell us viewers something about the episode?

Space Seed, Spectre of the Gun, and Spock's Brain are the episodes I can't stand . . . Space Seed's whole misogyny bumped it right off.

Even back in those pre-women’s lib days, the behavior of Lt. Marla McGivers was a bit hard to swallow. But I still think “Space Seed” is a good story. And it spawned ST II: The Wrath of Khan, arguably the best of the Trek movies featuring the original-series cast.

“Spectre of the Gun” had a silly premise, but I enjoyed its trippy, surreal sets and art direction -- a triumph of form over content.

. . . One thing I HATE is that the Gorgon has to turn physically ugly at the end. Evil IS often attractive, and that's a good lesson to be remembered. Like sweet Roddy McDowell playing Lucifer on Fantasy Island.

Or this incarnation of Old Scratch.

 

[plynch]

Or this incarnation of Old Scratch.

me-yow

 

[MANT!]

The wacky device that Spock has to wear looks cool, and I think the idea of being able to dictate a person's actions by remote control is sorta neat. It's a stupid episode, but inoffensively stupid and even occasionally entertaining in a campy way.

Perhaps it inspired the following..

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ3yqtu5Hgc&feature=related[/yt]

 

[Too Much Fun]

I love that bit. Watching it again really takes me back. I never made the connection before, but it really makes sense. "Ren and Stimpy" totally took a concept that didn't work so well on "Star Trek" and made it great. Good call!

 

[ToddPence]

Let's consider some filmed material that "got it right". Anybody remember the original "Village of the Damned" with George Sanders? Similar elements: children seemingly unphased by surrounding death, having the ability to manipulate the adults around them to gain whatever they desire, and, if opposed, they don't blink an eye "lashing out" to kill their would be opposition. A creepy film, even today.

So what made that one work and "...Children..." fail?

Sincerely,

Bill

Maybe because the screenwriter of "Village of the Damned", Stirling Silliphant, was one of the twentieth century's greatest?

 

[Wingsley]

Let's consider some filmed material that "got it right". Anybody remember the original "Village of the Damned" with George Sanders? Similar elements: children seemingly unphased by surrounding death, having the ability to manipulate the adults around them to gain whatever they desire, and, if opposed, they don't blink an eye "lashing out" to kill their would be opposition. A creepy film, even today.

So what made that one work and "...Children..." fail?

Sincerely,

Bill

1: Bad writing / cringe-worthy script. You're never going to get off Square One with a script that's below-par relative to the rest of the series.

2: Lackluster direction. A psychodrama like this requires inspired direction and camera work to go along with an ambitious script.

3: Purpose - You have to ask yourself, why should we do a project like this if it's just a rip-off of VILLAGE OF THE DAMNED? If "And the Children Shall Lead" actually had a purpose of its own, if the story actually was meant to say something, then it might survive on its own merits.

 

[Merky]

Apparently And the Children Shall Lead was supposed to be a metaphor for Hitler's Youth. I don't not know where the idea appeared on screen but apparently that was the message of the week.

 

[ToddPence]

Totally useless trivia: "And The Children Shall Lead" contains three future "Brady Bunch" guest stars: Craig Hundley, Pamelyn Ferdin and Brian Tochi.