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Ancient Technology that may or may not be Ahead of its Time, or Even True

Certain acids can also be used. Not being a chemist, I can't really comment.
From a chemistry point of view, from what I've been reading, having never taken even high school chemistry, opting for physics instead, Natron's mechanism is based on its extremely high Ph, so it's surprising that acids would act in a similar way.

-Will
 
The stone softening theory is getting more and more interesting to me.. looking at other stuff:

soften_stone2.avif


soften_stone6.jpg


There was a period in the 17th hundred for a few decades when a lot of veiled marble sculptures appeared,
The marble is so thin in places that it's translucent. No chisel marks...
With undercuts that would crack and break the marble if done traditionally.

soften_stone.jpg


Some theorize now that this is the result of a process that could render stone temporarily soft. .
The veil was actually soft as fabric and draped over the underlying sculptures when both was wet before hardening again.

This process is lost now, apparently the masters that knew this stone-softening recipe
took the secret with them to their grave.

I am looking at ancient structures with totally different eyes now, wow...
ancient_stone_softening1.jpg
 
From a chemistry point of view, from what I've been reading, having never taken even high school chemistry, opting for physics instead, Natron's mechanism is based on its extremely high Ph, so it's surprising that acids would act in a similar way.
This is my understanding (which is possibly a gross simplification or just plain wrong):

An alkali reduces the concentration of free hydrogen ions (protons). Like strong acids, strong alkaline solutions are highly corrosive, although the mechanism differs. An acidic substance seeks to donate protons to or accept hydroxide ions from any material with which it makes contact. An alkaline substance seeks to accept protons from or donate hydroxide ions to any material with which it makes contact. If sufficiently strong, either can disrupt the chemical structure of granite, which is primarily composed of quartz, feldspar and mica. Strong acids attack feldspar (aluminium silicates combined with other elements such as sodium, potassium and calcium) and strong alkalis attack quartz (silicon dioxide). Mica is more resistant to both acids and alkalis.
 
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The stone softening theory is getting more and more interesting to me.. looking at other stuff:

soften_stone2.avif


soften_stone6.jpg


There was a period in the 17th hundred for a few decades when a lot of veiled marble sculptures appeared,
The marble is so thin in places that it's translucent. No chisel marks...
With undercuts that would crack and break the marble if done traditionally.

soften_stone.jpg


Some theorize now that this is the result of a process that could render stone temporarily soft. .
The veil was actually soft as fabric and draped over the underlying sculptures when both was wet before hardening again.

This process is lost now, apparently the masters that knew this stone-softening recipe
took the secret with them to their grave.

I am looking at ancient structures with totally different eyes now, wow...
ancient_stone_softening1.jpg
Sorry to burts your bubble but there's nothing transparant about those marble statues, it's an optical illusion.
 
I thought the adjective "translucent" was used - which is accurate as thin marble can be if it is sufficiently fine grained.
i dint even think of the difference between those two words lol, but yeah, not transparent.
---
Now i cant "unsee" the possibility of stone softening being used....
This sculpture here is also interesting.
To me it seems impossible to carve rope on top of rope like this.
il_disinganno2.jpg


il_disinganno1.jpg


But i guess i also got to believe that people was super skilled back then.
 
Never having worked in marble - or sculpted at all - I can't offer an expert comment. I imagine it would be phenomenally difficult and time consuming. The scoring of the braiding doesn't continue all the way around the ropes, so that aspect does appear to be sculpted.
 
There may be layers applied over layers. But that intricate undercutting is seen in wood and ivory, as well.
il_fullxfull.6980192950_5ao3.jpg

Marble is a very nice stone to carve. It is tight gained, compared to sandstone but much softer than Granite.

Did you know Michelangelo's David was attempted by at least two other sculptors who gave up on the huge piece of marble it was carved from, because the marble was found to be inferior. Michelangelo was given two years to make it right. It took him 3, I think I remember reading. I think I read that Leonardo DaVinci even tried his hand at it and gave up.
images

-Will
 
There may be layers applied over layers. But that intricate undercutting is seen in wood and ivory, as well.
That undercut is crazy!

Did you know Michelangelo's David was attempted by at least two other sculptors who gave up on the huge piece of marble it was carved from, because the marble was found to be inferior. Michelangelo was given two years to make it right. It took him 3, I think I remember reading. I think I read that Leonardo DaVinci even tried his hand at it and gave up.
images

-Will
I had no idea it was so HUGE! Over 5 meters high, 2 meters wide! thnx=)
 
Not ancient technology but recalling something I remember from the 80s.

I remember in the 80s magazine predictions of TV sets using ultra miniaturized LED elements which would be bright and thin, yet we ended up with LCD screens using the LED as the backlight.

Did we ever get proper LED screens for TV or monitors?

I'm not counting OLED screens which seem to be a recent invention.
 
Not ancient technology but recalling something I remember from the 80s.

I remember in the 80s magazine predictions of TV sets using ultra miniaturized LED elements which would be bright and thin, yet we ended up with LCD screens using the LED as the backlight.

Did we ever get proper LED screens for TV or monitors?

I'm not counting OLED screens which seem to be a recent invention.

Blue LEDs weren't available commercially until 1989 and there were no high brightness ones until 1993. By then, liquid crystal display (LCD) technology with RGB masks was being used for small displays with cold cathode fluorescent (CCFL) back lighting. I had a miniature TV using that technology in 1989 and it carried on into the monitors that became available in the late 90s.

I suspect what you are thinking of are MicroLED displays, which were invented in 2000, but it took about twelve years before the first displays using the technology became available to buy. I gather they are super expensive at between five thousand and twelve thousand dollars per square metre of display.

Disclaimer: There are probably gaps in my knowledge and recollection. Someone might like to correct me or fill in more details.
 
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Blue LEDs weren't available commercially until 1989 and there were no high brightness ones until 1993. By then, liquid crystal display (LCD) technology with RGB masks was being used for small displays with cold cathode fluorescent (CCFL) back lighting. I had a miniature TV using that technology in 1989 and it carried on into the monitors that became available in the late 90s.

I suspect what you are thinking of are MicroLED displays, which were invented in 2000, but it took about twelve years before the first displays using the technology became available to buy. I gather they are super expensive at between five thousand and twelve thousand dollars per square metre of display.

Disclaimer: There are probably gaps in my knowledge and recollection. Someone might like to correct me or fill in more details.

No, you're good. It was reading stories in magazines like ETI and Electronics Australia where they were holding small prototype screens that were a few inches across and waxing on about how we would have one day full colour screens using nothing but LED elements once they perfect blue LEDs.



Blue leds were very difficult to create..

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Indeed they were. I think they nearly didn't get invented due to how difficult they were to fabricate
 
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There may be layers applied over layers. But that intricate undercutting is seen in wood and ivory, as well.
il_fullxfull.6980192950_5ao3.jpg

Marble is a very nice stone to carve. It is tight gained, compared to sandstone but much softer than Granite.

Did you know Michelangelo's David was attempted by at least two other sculptors who gave up on the huge piece of marble it was carved from, because the marble was found to be inferior. Michelangelo was given two years to make it right. It took him 3, I think I remember reading. I think I read that Leonardo DaVinci even tried his hand at it and gave up.
images

-Will
“Music has charms to soothe a savage breast / to soften rocks or bend a knotted oak.”

[From the opening lines of The Mourning Bride, a play from 1697 by British playwright William Congreve]
 
No, you're good. It was reading stories in magazines like ETI and Electronics Australia where they were holding small prototype screens that were a few inches across and waxing on about how we would have one day full colour screens using nothing but LED elements once they perfect blue LEDs.

Indeed they were. I think they nearly didn't get invented due to how difficult they were to fabricate
Optoelectronic devices such as LEDs and solar cells require direct band gap semiconductors where the minimum energy state in the conduction band and the maximum energy state in the valence band occur at the same crystal momentum (k-vector) in the Brillouin zone. Electrons can then transition directly between the bands by absorbing or emitting a photon without needing the assistance of a phonon (quantum of lattice vibration), which would make the transition much less likely - as it the case in silicon, which is an indirect band gap semiconductor.

bandgap.jpg


The wavelength of the emitted photon in nanometres is 1240 divided by the energy gap in electronvolts, so for blue light photons at 400 nm, a gap of just over 3 eV is required. That's about as much of the appropriate solid state physics as I remember from the 1970s.
 
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“Music has charms to soothe a savage breast / to soften rocks or bend a knotted oak.”

[From the opening lines of The Mourning Bride, a play from 1697 by British playwright William Congreve]
It's interesting that I know people who swear they know how the pyramids were built by cutting the blocks using sound. I haven't heard anything about bending knotted oak, though.

-Will
 
“Music has charms to soothe a savage breast / to soften rocks or bend a knotted oak.”

[From the opening lines of The Mourning Bride, a play from 1697 by British playwright William Congreve]
Hey....!!! I KNEW it had something to do with sound;)
 

Perhaps if I post the link enough times someone will click on it.
Here are examples of molten salt:
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I wonder if that would be translucent…

People were skilled in the past precisely because they didn’t have today’s electronic distraction.

If all you did was cut marble—then your whole life could be devoted to that skill.
 
People were skilled in the past precisely because they didn’t have today’s electronic distraction.
It is both a boon and a curse.
If all you did was cut marble—then your whole life could be devoted to that skill.
Provided enough wealthy patrons with enormous disposable income liked your art and wanted to buy it, possibly because it stimulated their emotions or they saw it as an investment. The pride felt by proving that your culture had regained skills thought lost after the collapse of previous civilisations might also have been a factor. Not every culture felt motivated in the same way. It was a lot more prevalent in the various states on the Italian peninsula - possibly because the raw material was more available locally. The Roman church didn't consider it idolatrous and even sponsored it with the wealth taken from congregations. Cue Martin Luther...
 
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