An observation from a Browncoat Trekkie...

[Chrisisall]

The movie Serenity & Star Trek TMP have something in common- the honest exploration of the idea that evil is not the work of a true villain, it is the result of impulses to reach a goal through questionable means to a desired positive end gone terribly wrong.
V'Ger wanted to reach it's God, even if it meant the destruction of all the "carbon units" on Earth; the Operative murdered children, if he had to, to ensure a better world(s) for all all those living in it (them).
The idea that bad things are sometimes done by peeps (or living machines) to reach a level of greater "enlightenment" is so very gray that many feel uncomfortable with the very concept of a story it that, in it's delivery, tasks us to re-examine our own beliefs on good vs. evil. Hence, the lower box office score.

Thoughts on this?

 

[barnaclelapse]

That makes sense to me.

The average film-goer generally wants things pretty cut and dry. They want the white hats and black hats to be pretty distinguishable from one another. Even when there's a gray hat, it still tends to lean on a very strong sense of good or evil.

People like rivalries. They like something that builds towards a classic showdown. I can certainly get in for something like that, but I've definitely always been up for a somewhat more abstract concept of good/evil like the ones you've described.

 

[Chrisisall]

People like rivalries. They like something that builds towards a classic showdown.

In both showdowns of Serenity & STTMP, the villains not only didn't die, but actually became more "human." No coincidence that these are two of my favourite films of all time.
I like-y the complex.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I think you may be right in part, but you're really not being fair comparing Serenity to TMP. Serenity was a good movie. TMP had a lot of problems - with pacing chief among them. That movie dragged on worse than a poorly written church sermon read by Ben Stein.

 

[Chrisisall]

I think you may be right in part, but you're really not being fair comparing Serenity to TMP.

I would have compared it to Blade Runner, but since this is a Trek site, I thought I'd go with a Trek flick. My FAVOURITE Trek flick, btw.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Seem like you might be describing most Trek villains, actually. Even in the movies.

Dr. Soran wasn't bad, he probably would rather not have destroyed worlds. But he did to get to his version of Heaven.

Sybok, more or less the same.

The antagonists in Insurrection - "It was all for the Federation!"

In fact, it would seem that fan favourite Khan was least complex of them all for motivation!

Many movies have done this much better than Serenity and Trek ever could. It's odd that parallels are drawn with these 2 franchises for this, the comparisons are as superficial as saying Serenity and Gone with the Wind are identical movies. You could find similarities there quite easy, too.

Also, TMP didn't exactly have a low box office score. Especially when compared to Serenity.

 

[USS Triumphant]

My FAVOURITE Trek flick, btw.

I'm sorry.

And to be kind, I won't say what it is I'm sorry about...

 

[Chrisisall]

Seem like you might be describing most Trek villains, actually. Even in the movies.

Dr. Soran wasn't bad, he probably would rather not have destroyed worlds. But he did to get to his version of Heaven.

Sybok, more or less the same.

The antagonists in Insurrection - "It was all for the Federation!"

Yes... I do love Trek...

In fact, it would seem that fan favourite Khan was least complex of them all for motivation!

He was a punk.

Many movies have done this much better than Serenity and Trek ever could.

Name 20.

It's odd that parallels are drawn with these 2 franchises for this, the comparisons are as superficial as saying Serenity and Gone with the Wind are identical movies. You could find similarities there quite easy, too.

Non-sequitur; your facts are un-co-ordinated.

Also, TMP didn't exactly have a low box office score. Especially when compared to Serenity.

Well, when you take in the relative costs of the productions, TMP was not THAT much more sucessful than Serenity, not excessively anyway.

I'm sorry.

And to be kind, I won't say what it is I'm sorry about...

No worries, I don't really get offended by opinions that differ from my own. Thanks for the apology, though.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Name 20

I don't know 20, but probably the best example in modern sci-fi would probably have to be Londo Mollari.

 

[Chrisisall]

Name 20

I don't know 20, but probably the best example in modern sci-fi would probably have to be Londo Mollari.

I thought you'd say Darth Vader in Jedi.
(And Londo is not a movie- but whatever)

 

[CorporalClegg]

Well, despite the seemingly unwavering love for the "Holy Trilogy," I think the amplitude of Vader's actions in Jedi is often exaggerated.

And there were several B5 movies--one that specifically focused on Londo's turmoil.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The average film-goer generally wants things pretty cut and dry. They want the white hats and black hats to be pretty distinguishable from one another.

That's exactly what I want.

 

[Chrisisall]

And there were several B5 movies--one that specifically focused on Londo's turmoil.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't deal with his do.