Amok Time - Sarek and Amanda

[Crewman47]

Meant to post this a couple of weeks ago when I saw the episode.

Anyway, as I was watching this episode I was wondering why the turn out for Spock and T'Pring's betrothed marriage ended up only consisting of Spock, T'Pring, some honour guards(I assume) for T'Pau and T'Pau herself, and then there's Skonn (I think that's what his name was). I thought if this was a marriage then why wouldn't the parents have been there which could have also helped by having Sarek and Amanda there to explain the rituals and rules to Kirk and McCoy at least.

Any thoughts?

 

[Outpost4]

Beyond the fact that Journey to Babel hadn't happened/been filmed yet, I can't think of a reason.

 

[Maurice]

Well, production realities aside, it was later established that Sarek and Spock weren't on speaking terms. Plus, it's an alien culture, so for all we know their customs might require family to stay far away in the Berkshires until it's over.

 

[SchwEnt]

It isn't too hard to imagine.

Sarek is an ambassador and travels with his wife.
So he was on some diplomatic mission off Vulcan, simple enough explanation.

Plus consider that the whole Pon Farr came up on Spock fairly quickly with little time to resolve itself.
No time for Amanda and Sarek to get to Vulcan if they wanted to.

It's not too hard to explain, is it?

 

[Ronald Held]

I can believe that Sarek and Amanda were too far away to return on short notice.

 

[Hofner]

DS9Sega's different custom explanation is what I'd speculate. It may make sense. The way Spock explained it, the pon farr is very embarrassing and he'd probably would hate for his parents or other family to see him like that. But maybe one member has to officiate so that duty falls to the leader of the family, T'Pau in this case.

Just supposin'

Robert

 

[Basill]

I think SchwEnt hits all the nails on the head. Also, DS9Sega's point about Sarek and Spock's strained relationship at the time was spot on. These factors alone easily explain a Sarek/Amanda absense.

I also like DS9Sega's speculation on Vulcan culture. I can just picture the stoic family sitting by the Vulcan phone waiting for the call that reveals, "Moans of pleasure were heard on Mt. Selaya this evening" or "We will need you to come and identify your kid's parts because someone screamed Kali-fee rather unexpectedly and there was some really ugly lear-pa action."

What I have always wanted to know for certain was, who's side of the family was T'Pau on; Spock's family or T'Pring's? Although novel sources claim she is Spock's relation, I don't think it is established canon for whom she was overseeing the ceremony. Of course I don't know how similar their ceremonies are to Earthly cultures, especially those that deal in dowries and arranged marriages, but on Earth the bride's family usually take care of such details don't they? Understandably the Ponn Far is one of the oldest Vulcan rituals steeped in tradition as well as biology, but part of me thinks that if the bride's family doesn't have much more say in such an arranged ceremony, other than, "Kali-fee! You're going to have to kill somebody if you want a piece of this!" ...then Vulcan might be a little more backwards than I thought. Sheer vicarious pride however, has me hoping T'Pau was Spock's granny.

And for the record T'Pring's "buddy" was named Stonn. Skon was Sarek's father as named in TSFS.

 

[sbk1234]

I'll agree with the cultural reasons. I always figured that because it was such an emotional/irrational time, the parents wouldn't be there to see their child falling apart. I imagine that they have a family ceremony later on, after the official - possibly bloody - ceremony has been completed.

Also, Basill, why does T'Pau have to be representing either side? Has this been established anywhere in canon? I know very few Earth weddings that have been presided over by family members. Even when family members have been members of the clergy.

 

[Basill]

^^Well, an excellent point. She doesn't necessarily have to be related to either of them. I almost touched upon this, but something in the back of my head said nobody would take the idea seriously. I'll will have a stern speaking-to with the back of my head later.

And though I agree that it is rare, I just happen have a preacher acquaintance that not too long ago presided over his daughter's wedding. And yes, I thought it creepy at the time.

 

[Green Shirt]

Outhouse4 said:
Beyond the fact that Journey to Babel hadn't happened/been filmed yet, I can't think of a reason.

Kinda reminds me of the "Enemy Within"/shuttlecraft debate.

 

[Nebusj]

sbk1234 said:
Also, Basill, why does T'Pau have to be representing either side? Has this been established anywhere in canon? I know very few Earth weddings that have been presided over by family members. Even when family members have been members of the clergy.

Kirk mentions on seeing T'Pau that he didn't know Spock's family was this important. Of course, we have no reason to believe Kirk knows anything substantial about how those presiding Vulcan weddings are selected.

 

[sbk1234]

^^I always thought Kirk's comment meant that his family would have to be important to have someone of T'Pau's status officiating at his wedding. As if to say that she wouldn't officiate unless those involved were of very important families.

 

[Huntingdon]

That's how I interpreted it as well.

 

[Outpost4]

Hunt? Nice to see you. Stick around.

 

[Nebusj]

sbk1234 said:
^^I always thought Kirk's comment meant that his family would have to be important to have someone of T'Pau's status officiating at his wedding. As if to say that she wouldn't officiate unless those involved were of very important families.

Ah, but how does Kirk know that T'Pau isn't there as a measure of how important T'Pring's family is?

 

[seigezunt]

They got lost driving out there. And if you think human males are stubborn about not asking for directions, you haven't seen Vulcans...

 

[Huntingdon]

Outpost4 said:
Hunt? Nice to see you. Stick around.

Thanks. I'm mainly in lurk and pounce mode at the moment. This thread was too interesting to pass up, not that I had any great insight to pass on.

 

[sbk1234]

Nebusj said:

sbk1234 said:
^^I always thought Kirk's comment meant that his family would have to be important to have someone of T'Pau's status officiating at his wedding. As if to say that she wouldn't officiate unless those involved were of very important families.

Ah, but how does Kirk know that T'Pau isn't there as a measure of how important T'Pring's family is?

He probably assumed that if T'Pring's family is of such a high status, they wouldn't have allowed a joining with a family that is of a lesser status. Therefore, logic dictates, Spock's family must be of equally high status.

 

[NathanielM]

Crewman47 said:
Meant to post this a couple of weeks ago when I saw the episode.

Anyway, as I was watching this episode I was wondering why the turn out for Spock and T'Pring's betrothed marriage ended up only consisting of Spock, T'Pring, some honour guards(I assume) for T'Pau and T'Pau herself, and then there's Skonn (I think that's what his name was). I thought if this was a marriage then why wouldn't the parents have been there which could have also helped by having Sarek and Amanda there to explain the rituals and rules to Kirk and McCoy at least.

Any thoughts?

Reference Star Trek V: Final Frontier T'Pau and Sarek were married and had to seperate because she became part of the temple. But not without Sybok being borne.... Sarek basically had to move on and he married Amanda, an Earther who understood love and the ways of being vulcan. Spock's parents.


Sybok was Sarek's first son from a different marriage. At least how I interpreted this...

 

[Sir Rhosis]

Trek V doesn't say anything whatsoever about T'Pau being Sarek's first wife. Where did you get that? V just said his first wife was a "Vulcan princess."

Sir Rhosis