Amazing Spider-Man: One More Day

[coolghoul]

I finally got to read the infamous collection of JMS and Joe Quesada's One More Day.

Of course, I knew that this was the storyline that ended (or undid) one of the more enduring marriages in comics. And I am a strong supporter of MJ as a character that is very important in the life of Spider-man and Peter Parker and dare-I-say in the Marvel Universe. She's the iconic redhead in Marvel U - a very interesting amalgam of somebody who's a party-going fun-loving character and yet has strength, resolve, ambitious and is an achiever.

First about the collection itself. JMS' writing was as usual very involving to me. He had some powerful moments (the doctor who recognizes Peter Morgan, the kid who calls spidey selfish etc). Quesada's art was also powerful. I think it was majorly helped by the inker - the reds were gorgeous. It really worked for Mephisto (suprisingly I am used to a more black and white version of him, having seen him in several "Essentials" comics - Silver Surfer comes to mind) and the scenes with Peter and MJ holding each other.

Now on to the controversial bit of the undoing of the marriage of Peter and MJ -

As part of the collection, there are long articles by Joe Quesada, JMS and Stan Lee.

Stan is more noncommital about the whole thing - he recognizes that it will be both an important event and will invite rejection from fans. Joe's and JMS' articles were interesting to read. Joe makes no bones about the fact that he (and others in Marvel) have long wished for this. He opines that this was a necessary event that needed to happen in Spider-Man and is necessary to keeping this character enjoyable/popular/growing for the next 10-15 years. JMS makes no bones of the fact that it isn't his choice to "undo" the marriage but does say that when such is the direction, he wanted to write the story so that it would be as true to the characters that he had dealt with for several years as he could make it. JMS also defends the Gwen Stacy storyline - fans have accused him of turning the pure Gwen into a "whore" (I think it's a little overboard but I can understand it when fans get upset when a long loved character is retconned into behaving inexplicably).

I think the storyline does have JMS making the most of it. When you hear (like I did) that Peter made a deal with the devil to give up his marriage in order to save May, it doesn't make much sense. But JMS does give reasons (some would call them fig-leafs) for almost all the angry fan-comments I have seen. First and quite importantly he has both Peter and MJ decide. Not just Peter. I thought it was very important and inclusive and truer to MJ's character to have done that. Second, he answers (or attempts to answer) the common question of May is soo old... why sacrifice a young marriage to an old Aunt. Doc Strange specifically tells Peter that and Peter rejects it since she is dying due to his actions (usual Peter angsting and guilting himself) - his unmasking and then not supporting the SHRA which leaves his family vulnerable to his enemies and so on... Also, JMS addresses the fact that why doesn't Pete ask some of his super-powered friends to help. He does. And it was a neat way of how to have him asking everybody and within such a short time too. Also, JMS needed to do it in a way, which didn't invalidate the previous marriage years totally.

Now I actually *like* the Peter-MJ marriage. However since I am not such a hardcore fan, I wanted to think of it from Quesada's perspective too. His point is that having Peter as single allows for more romantic interests and character interactions for Peter without necessarily labeling him an adulterer. If they did a divorce, then it creates baggage for the character. This weird "undoing" keeps the romantic tension between Peter and MJ *potentially* there. (Tho' they have a sad MJ leaving the party at the end which seems weird. It seems that they have broken up or something). Basically it allows them to have Peter be foot-loose and fancy free with more than just MJ, tho' MJ will always be the special pairing that he will gravitate too (I think that is what will happen in the future storylines (which I haven't read) tho' it might take a couple of years of issues).

But why so much marriage-hate? Is it just cos it structurally limits stories to heavily feature MJ with Peter? What about trying to get Spidey to appeal to the youngsters. That's the audience we need to "regain"/"retarget" in comics. (They shouldn't become manga-readers at the cost of DC/Marvel comics). And I do know that my young nephews/nieces like the Ultimate spidey more than the main universe ones. It's a little fuddy-duddy to be reading about a happily-married superhero.

But does that give Joe Q a legit excuse for doing this to some characters that I really enjoyed reading about? (Somehow, I don't feel the same way about Supes-Lois). I still haven't thought this thru....

Thoughts?

 

[Gojirob]

I just can't get over the way it was rammed down the fans' throats, after so many instances in which the fans--the purchasers and sources of money--told them that they either supported the marriage itself or saw no reason to change things.
It also weirds me out that there was such an incredible disconnect between creative types and the fans. Most creative types I've read over the years seemed to be in this casual lock-step opposing the marriage.

Myself, I would have used JMS own character, Ezekiel. Have him appear in Obi-spirit-form to Peter, saying that he can 'climb into the web of his life', but that will mean all the mystic stuff leaving his life--again that stuff was never a fan fave. Also, like messing with a computer's registry, one small mistake could be huge. In the end, he reconnects May but screws up and erases his marriage to MJ. He manages to look back at her, like Orpheus for his love, just before the changes take hold.

 

[Forbin]

I hated the whole thing. I don't see whay we can't have just one more adult relationship in the comics universe, among thousands of single heroes. Was it that important to have Pete screw the Black Cat?

I refuse to believe having a character married limits story possibilities, rather than just opening up new ones.

 

[coolghoul]

Myself, I would have used JMS own character, Ezekiel. Have him appear in Obi-spirit-form to Peter, saying that he can 'climb into the web of his life', but that will mean all the mystic stuff leaving his life--again that stuff was never a fan fave. Also, like messing with a computer's registry, one small mistake could be huge. In the end, he reconnects May but screws up and erases his marriage to MJ. He manages to look back at her, like Orpheus for his love, just before the changes take hold.

Very poetic. I like it.

I think that is a very valid alternate way of making "the change" happen.

However, creativity-wise, would it leave you in a place where only Peter remembers what-could-have-been? If so, then, he can't be "foot-loose and fancy free" with Black Cat and the room-mate lady without at least in his and our (the reader's) minds at being somehow disloyal to MJ.

Also - the point with the marriage is - where do we go from here in the years to come? I know they have done the birth of a kid (stolen by the nurse - was it at the end of the Clone Saga?) but I have no clue whether it has been retconned away. But a married with kids storyline wouldn't "broaden" Spidey's "appeal" especially for the teen-kids that Marvel execs like Joe Q might have been targetting as Spidey-readers in the future. They already have a "family" superhero line in the FF.

The point that I'm trying to reconcile (in my head) is whether the execs have a legit point in a) making Spidey single again? and b) is somehow magically "undoing" the marriage (It never happened) the right way to make him single. Cos those are the main points that Joe Q posited in his writeup in the OMD collection.

 

[hyzmarca]

The funny thing about him going to all his friends, is that Beast conveniently forgets that there is a guy on his team whose power is healing people. And Iron Man forgets that he created a device to treat similar injuries in a cave from a box of scraps.

Anyway, the current crop of writers and Joe Q grew up in the 70s reading about unmarried Spidey. The next batch will have grown up in the 80s reading about married Spidey and the retcon will be retconed.

 

[Gojirob]

Myself, I would have used JMS own character, Ezekiel. Have him appear in Obi-spirit-form to Peter, saying that he can 'climb into the web of his life', but that will mean all the mystic stuff leaving his life--again that stuff was never a fan fave. Also, like messing with a computer's registry, one small mistake could be huge. In the end, he reconnects May but screws up and erases his marriage to MJ. He manages to look back at her, like Orpheus for his love, just before the changes take hold.

Very poetic. I like it.

I think that is a very valid alternate way of making "the change" happen.

However, creativity-wise, would it leave you in a place where only Peter remembers what-could-have-been? If so, then, he can't be "foot-loose and fancy free" with Black Cat and the room-mate lady without at least in his and our (the reader's) minds at being somehow disloyal to MJ.

Also - the point with the marriage is - where do we go from here in the years to come? I know they have done the birth of a kid (stolen by the nurse - was it at the end of the Clone Saga?) but I have no clue whether it has been retconned away. But a married with kids storyline wouldn't "broaden" Spidey's "appeal" especially for the teen-kids that Marvel execs like Joe Q might have been targetting as Spidey-readers in the future. They already have a "family" superhero line in the FF.

The point that I'm trying to reconcile (in my head) is whether the execs have a legit point in a) making Spidey single again? and b) is somehow magically "undoing" the marriage (It never happened) the right way to make him single. Cos those are the main points that Joe Q posited in his writeup in the OMD collection.

Oh, I agree with keeping the marriage. I stopped reading Spidey because of this, and the glimpses I've gotten showed me nothing substancial that could not have been done with a married Spidey. My notion was just if it had to be done, make it the traditional venue of Peter/Spidey screwing up earnestly.

It also bothers me when characters somehow get blamed for decisions the writers make by those same writers. JQ and company saying how Peter would regret unmasking and realize it was his greatest mistake ever reminded me of TNG writers putting Riker down for not taking his own command. Do they even realize what they sound like when they say that? It's like Jim Henson critting Kermit for not committing to Piggy.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

I dont have any problem with the overall concept of undoing the marriage.

I just think the story blows chunks. It may be one of the dumbest most "un-Spider-Man" stories I've ever read.

 

[Checkmate]

The problem for me was the fact that they made a deal with the devil. It's completely the opposite of a heroic action.

 

[Captain Craig]

The problem for me was the fact that they made a deal with the devil. It's completely the opposite of a heroic action.

This is the most often repeated line on comic themed message boards....cause its true.

With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

There is nothing responsible about making a deal with a devil. Aunt May would whoop his wheatcake eating ass if she knew that.

Further as noted, Marvel in various ways tried to unmarry Peter and it wasn't met well.
Clone Saga - while not as bad as some make it out to be was giving us nuPete and keeping olePete. Didn't work cause fans cried "we've been duped this long, no way".
Spider-Man:Chapter One - set about restarting Spidey and interconnecting all his would be foes from the start and giving us Hippie Uncle Ben. This is when the character would reach its lowest per issue sales point of 46.8K. Marvel scrapped it and JMS came on board not long after.

One More Day was forced down on our throats and we were told how it would be a return to classic form. Apparently shoddy art, lame new villains that are just reworkings of classic ones and mediocore stories are what Joey Q recalls of 60/70's Spidey. That is not how I or anyone else sees those stories.

Don't tell us fans that a legally separated or divorced from MJ Spidey/Peter is more unapproachable. Hell the last two decades have seen a 50/50 on marriage/divorce. At the core Spidey is that relatable character and just as many kids have now come from a divorced home as there are kids who grew up knowing someone who got divorced.

The February 2010 sales have a single issue of Amazing Spiderman dropping to 55K for the last issue of February with no variant covers. At three times a month not one of those issues cracked 60K. First a variant cover couldn't push one issue over that mark. So in total ASM is selling about 155K, that is now concretly less than when Spec and Friendly were also out.

Someone at the Marvel Boards did a spreadsheet since OMD in comparison to other top books during the last two years. He says it shows that while the average books during that time dropped 20-24%, ASM dropped 46%. Meaning people were more likely to drop Spidey than other books for reasons beyond any "economic" one, ie quality.

Hopefully someone(s) above Joey Q's head(at Disney mabye?) will force the change. Spidey is the flagship character and his sells are pathetic.

 

[C.E. Evans]

The 3x a month schedule and inconsistent art teams is what ultimately did drive me away from Amazing Spider-man after 20+ years more than OMD/BND did, but I did hang in there for roughly a year. I really didn't see any advantage for Peter being single other than it enabled him to fool around with other girls.

 

[Hound of UIster]

The level of denial and anger over this can only be matched by certain Trek fans to a certain Trek movie.

'Course I don't think Mr. Abrams has been compared to Al Qaeda or Bin Laden yet.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Would Quesada or JMS or anyone have made the same choice Peter did? To end the relationship with the woman you love, erase it from existance, to save your mother? Even if your your 84 year old mother was dying because you, say, messed up and didn't fill her prescription on your way home like you were supposed to?

I mean, there is just no way to relate to this. If they wanted Pete single, then have MJ take a bullet. It would have been HUGE, it would have been actual drama, and Pete would have been actually single, and actually had a reason to be all angsty for a while. Then he could screw Black Cat and feel all angsty about that.

For me the Mephisto story is just stupid and it's not something I care about reading.

 

[coolghoul]

^ But the point is not to eliminate MJ. (At least, I *hope* not. I quite enjoy her as a character and think Peter and Spidey need her around! Also far too many characters get killed and resurrected...).

The way they did it, Peter is single (footloose, fancy-free) to play the field and yet he still continues to feel a strange connection to MJ. Eventually leading to more romance with MJ of course. (I don't know what has happened with the Return of MJ storyline - I am way behind on my Spider reading)

It basically would amount to doing a weird one-person version of a DC-style crisis universe-reset.

Also - the point is not that there aren't many kids who don't have divorced parents. There are plenty of kids who have married parents too - but ask them if they want to read about married superheroes and they might say "uh... I'll pass". The point being that kids (with married parents or divorced parents) might not be interested in embracing and starting a long (hopefully life-long) love-affair with the Spider-man character. Cos the aging fanboy population by definition is a dying breed. Historically sales of comics have become lower (correct me if I'm wrong please - I don't have much of an indepth knowledge about it - I'm going by what is the common perception that I see among fans) cos it is now a niche market with people dropping out of their comics habit due to one reason or the other (too expensive, not enough time, family or job pressures, uninteresting storylines, other hobbies etc. etc.).

Also re the believability of what Peter does - yes, it is obviously a fake predetermined framing of the whole thing. However, once the get into the storyline, I don't want Aunt May to join Uncle Ben as Peter's guilt. (this is a personal choice, of course). I think Uncle Ben's death leading to the "with great power, comes great responsibility" should remain the major bugaboo riding Peter. It shouldn't be added to with the thought that Aunt May has also died cos he was irresponsible (even tho' all the family backed him on outing himself as Spider-Man).

I think I agree with the point that making it a deal with the devil makes Peter/Spidey seem irresponsible and weak. There really is no defense that I can think of against that charge.

On the other hand it was still a powerful story - they could have chosen Dormammu or some weird mystic demon to do it (or the totem like how Gojirob suggested- actually it's the orpheus image that makes it so appealing) . But the undoing of a very strong and a very loved/popular marriage needs to be epic huge. Mephisto himself is pretty epic. If it sticks for a long time, then we will always know about how Mephisto himself had to take the pairing out...

 

[Captain Craig]

Also - the point is not that there aren't many kids who don't have divorced parents. There are plenty of kids who have married parents too - but ask them if they want to read about married superheroes and they might say "uh... I'll pass". The point being that kids (with married parents or divorced parents) might not be interested in embracing and starting a long (hopefully life-long) love-affair with the Spider-man character. Cos the aging fanboy population by definition is a dying breed.

I know I mentioned that point divorced/married and relatability. That really was just a tangent but let me ask you this, assuming you frequent an LCS.
How many kids/teens do you see shopping the comic book specialty store? Buying multiple books at $3-4 a pop? I don't ever see any and haven't in over a decade. I frequent two different shops and go in and various times. Kids and or teens are not buying books. It's the 'dying breed' that are and that is who they should be catering to.

Kids/Teens will be introduced to Spidey via toons and movies. I have a 16yr old teen next door. Until I let him borrow a comic 3yrs ago he'd never read one or cared to, same for his friends. They spend money on iTunes, games and anything but comics.

The industry is kidding itself if it thinks rehashing the Silver Age(which is what Joey Q is doing with Spidey and I'd argue the Heroic Age, DC in totality) is going to bring in the youth to fill the void by the 'dying breed'. They will have to change their distribution methods and price points if that is an honest goal.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I prefer an unmarried Peter Parker, but the way they went about all of this was just daft.

 

[Mr Light]

My LCS seems to be populated by asshole 20-30 somethings mainly...

 

[LaxScrutiny]

^ But the point is not to eliminate MJ. (At least, I *hope* not. I quite enjoy her as a character and think Peter and Spidey need her around! Also far too many characters get killed and resurrected...).

The way they did it, Peter is single (footloose, fancy-free) to play the field and yet he still continues to feel a strange connection to MJ. Eventually leading to more romance with MJ of course. (I don't know what has happened with the Return of MJ storyline - I am way behind on my Spider reading)...

Well, to me, the point is that I can and will suspend my disbelief when it comes to powers but when it comes to relationships, it has to stay realistic or I lose interest.

It would be realistic if she died. It would be realistic if they split up, except that there has been no incompatability built into the relationship to make it believable. But OK, they could divorce. But having the devil wipe the relationship out of existence loses my interest.

I liked Stan's silver age stories, and his take on comics came from writing soap opera type stories in the 50's like Millie the Model, and juxtaposing those stories with the adventure heroes. I can get into that.

The old style horror comics were fun too, and the old EC comics with deal-with-the-devil stories with ironic endings were a hoot. That's what Mephisto should be for. But this is just using him as a deus ex machina, or more properly, daemon ex machina. It's a convenient retcon, and I never like those.

If they really want the silver age back, then just go with the ultimate titles and retell the stories from scratch. Then Peter can flirt with Gwen and MJ both, and he can screw the Black Cat and they can write what they want.

I mean, they don't have to write the comics I want. Unless they want me to actually buy them. They can do what they please, but they have lost my interest with this storyline.

 

[Nick Ryder]

I think instead of worrying about Spidey's sex life, they need to worry about how many kids are actually buying his comics. I mean, when I got into comics in the early 90s, I was about 12-13 years old and that was back when comic shops had KIDS going in every week. This is when they had spinner racks at drug stores and Wal-Mart. I mean, when I got into comics, you could go to Target and they had 2 comic racks in the toy department. Wal-Mart was the same way. Every Walgreens had a comic rack. Then somehow... shortly after the turn of the century... that changed. I think the last comic I bought at Walgreens was maybe Iron Man #30 (post Heroes Return) I think Maybe 2001 was the last year I saw comic books at places like Walgreens and Wal-Mart. (I think the 100 page Monster Issues they had that one year were the last I saw I'm not sure off hand)

But they did not need an OMD thing, to make Spider-Man "more accessible" to the teens. I WAS A TEEN WHEN I GOT INTO SPIDER-MAN. Spidey was married when I was like 5 years old. So I grew up with a married Spider-Man in the comics and an unmarried Spider-Man in the old Fox Cartoon. MJ was "the One" for Peter and I was cool with that. Even though when I got into back issues and TPBs, I liked when he was playing with the Black Cat, but MJ was still "the One".

I think JoeQ is deluding himself if he thinks that "Y'know if we can get comics back to how they were in the 70s... then kids will flock en masse to the comic shops and buy these comics, no matter how much they cost!"

They need to get the prices back to where they were in the 90s. $2.00 an issue is PLENTY. If you're going to charge $4-5 an issue, you are NOT going to rope in the kids. If a kid has $5 he'll buy candy OR some music on iTunes or go to GameStop and buy a cheap used video game. He/She is not thinking about comic books, even though they may love a certain character. Hell they'll buy an action figure before they'll buy a comic. Hasbro sort of has the right idea with the comic packs, package 2 figures and a comic book for $13 bucks. At least it gets the younger generation into the comics. BUT when they want more, its either to the local Barnes and Noble or Amazon.com to buy their trades. They're not going to go search out an LCS.

So either Marvel needs to stop bitching about "oh the price of paper is soooo expensive now" and just drop the prices OR do more "digest" comics where you get maybe 3-4 issues in one book, sort of like what they have at grocery stores, but a more aggressive strategy. Charge no more than $5 for the book - since that's a good price for magazines to move - and trust me I do magazine merchandising and the higher priced ones rarely sell. If a teen can buy the latest issue of Bop, or Tiger Beat or whatever for $4 and get a poster... why would they pay $4 for a comic book that's a fourth of the size and only one part of the story? This isn't the 80s or 90s when comics were cheap enough to pick up a stack at a time.

The industry killed itself. And its guys like JoeQ who keep it where it is. They claim to cater to the kids , but they're really just catering to the "older fans". Which IS MY generation, but they're forgetting that the pool needs to be refreshed from time to time. And stuff like OMD doesn't do that. I'd almost they rather just created a new spider-man to take over for Pete that we could follow along with, while Peter and MJ had babies and make it a big deal when the original Spider-Man would come out and do something.

 

[coolghoul]

I know I mentioned that point divorced/married and relatability. That really was just a tangent but let me ask you this, assuming you frequent an LCS.
How many kids/teens do you see shopping the comic book specialty store? Buying multiple books at $3-4 a pop? I don't ever see any and haven't in over a decade. I frequent two different shops and go in and various times. Kids and or teens are not buying books. It's the 'dying breed' that are and that is who they should be catering to.

You have exposed me for the hypocrite that I am.

I find the LCS intimidating. I think I went to one store because I was meeting a friend there last year. That's it. Most of my comics associations is now via the friendly neighborhood library. (The Inter Library Loan service is amazing!). Previously I used to see these in the local Barnes and Noble stores. And in the 90s (during the clone saga years - comics were available at the local grocery chains).

Having said that, I feel bad that I don't patronize an LCS. Most are committed fans and care about what's going on in the industry. And these are mom and pop operations supporting the local economy rather than the national franchises.

I used to adore comics (the individual kinds) growing up and had subscriptions to them. While I am not contributing to the comics by much nowadays (reading collections from libraries and suggesting books to them for purchase hardly qualifies) I still wish the industry well. I just don't put down money along with the best wishes. Hence, I am a hypocrite.

Kids/Teens will be introduced to Spidey via toons and movies. I have a 16yr old teen next door. Until I let him borrow a comic 3yrs ago he'd never read one or cared to, same for his friends. They spend money on iTunes, games and anything but comics.

The industry is kidding itself if it thinks rehashing the Silver Age(which is what Joey Q is doing with Spidey and I'd argue the Heroic Age, DC in totality) is going to bring in the youth to fill the void by the 'dying breed'. They will have to change their distribution methods and price points if that is an honest goal.

I agree - but I disagree that now comics should cater to only the 'dying breed'. I think manga digests have proven that youngsters are still interested in reading "drawn stories on paper" (in case anybody thinks that I shouldn't call manga as comics).

I think the industry should capitalize on the movie tie-ins. Along with something like Iron Man, they should have the movie-line comics (along with the main storylines) available at more distribution points like grocery stores and such.

 

[Nick Ryder]

Exactly my point coolghoul They are missing out on PRIME OPPORTUNITIES to get KIDS into comic books. And yes, I know some kids do read Magna... but you know why? BECAUSE THEY SEE THE FRAKING SHOW ON TV! The shows are selling the Magna.

Marvel sells tie in comics... at comic shops. :facepalm: If they're going into the comic shops, they're already converted. They need to be introduced to comics OUTSIDE the LCS. So that when they're ready to embark on the next step, they'll discover the LCS and they'll be "one of us" LOL

That's how I started! My mom bought me a bunch of comics at Target as a reward and it slowly built from there. I mean, I read Superman and Batman but I wasn't what you'd call a huge fan. But then the "shiny holographic covers" caught both of our eyes and she picked them up for me. I still have my Spider-Man # 375 that was one of my first Spidey comics and that pretty much got me going in a big way for Marvel. Then the rest, as they say, is history. Then I got into Ghost Rider, X-Men, Wolverine, Avengers... and my collection which, at the time, could be packed into a couple of Trapper Keeper folders slowly grew into a collection that now takes up a big plastic storage bin and about 2-3 bankers boxes. And I know my collection isn't nearly as large as some people's, but I still consider it a large collection.

And how did it get so large? VALUE PACKS OF COMICS AT TOYS R US! They used to have these massive packs with like 20-30 comics for something crazy like $10-15 bucks. And because so many of them were open, they almost encouraged picking your own - "
as long as there's 25 (or whatever) in the pack, we don't care."

Comics need to be sold where the kids are. And not just Marvel Adventures. Put out even the trades like Extremis, Demon in the Bottle, Armor Wars, Heroes Return:Iron Man (which was IMHO the best run honestly the first 30 or so issues were GOLD) - Same thing with Spider-Man, do the Venom origin story, do Carnage, do Maximum Carnage (which has TONS of Cameos by other Marvel characters), do some parts of the clone saga... okay maybe not that... but still. Put the trades out more and they will sell. Then the older kids will get excited, want more and then hunt down their LCS and pick up more back issues, maybe put in pull list orders for the current stuff. And then... then you've got fans for a long time.