Alien 5: An Open Message About Newt, Hicks, and Bishop

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JWPlatt, Jul 18, 2015.

  1. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

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    Dear Mr. Blomkamp,

    Despite your reassurances that Alien 5 will not retcon Alien 3 and 4, let me emphatically say – we WANT you to erase Alien 3 and 4, and I feel safe in generalizing the “we.” The reassurances you have made that Alien 5 will NOT retcon 3 and 4 is NO reassurance. I can’t imagine ANYONE except the studio who does not want the egregious snuffing of Newt, Hicks and Bishop eradicated from canon. The opening of Alien 3 was not simply a mismanaged mistake, it was a fundamental betrayal of the finale of Aliens. Power up the decanonizer!
     
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  2. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hicks will definitely be back, and Lance Henriksen's frankly too old to play Bishop at this point anyway. (At least not without some serious CGI help. Androids don't age, do they?)

    Ripley by the end of Alien: Resurrection has every reason in the universe to want to wipe out the Xenos once and for all - Newt's senseless death after all she did to save her being a huge part of that. And now, with her Xeno-enhanced DNA, she's got the means to do it. (An edge that a now 65-year-old Sigourney Weaver's really gonna need to not look ridiculous in an onscreen fight!) Throw in the Xeno-suit we've seen her wearing in the concept art and the tables have really been turned - she's poised to become their worst nightmare.

    As long as the reason for Hicks' return makes sense, and doesn't provoke traumatic flashbacks to Colonial Marines, I'm fine with 3 and 4 staying in.
     
  3. Tulin

    Tulin Vice Admiral Admiral

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    To the OP - hear hear!

    Nightowl - Sorry but wrong - that Ripley is about 200 years in the future, remember? A:R was deliberately set a couple of centuries after 3 to distance itself from the stench of that AWFUL debacle.

    Theoretically, the events of A:R could/will still happen.
     
  4. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    The opening of Alien 3 set the tone for the film. No one was safe, not even the beloved characters from the previous film. Yes it hurts that they were killed off, but that's life. People die all the time, most of the time they don't even have a heroic end, they just die.
     
  5. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Alien 3 is my second favorite film in the series, after the original film -- and, to be honest, there's little separation between them. If Blomkamp has backed off his original statements that he was going to ignore Alien 3 altogether, then I will be more interested in the new film. I was, honestly, not anticipating it at all because of prior statements.

    In short, JWPlatt, I'm not part of your "generalized 'we'." :)
     
  6. martok2112

    martok2112 Commodore Commodore

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    Hear hear!

    I just love it when folk start speaking for me, as I do not belong to the "we" that JWPlatt seems to think exists.

    Although, at first, Alien 3 was a rather underwhelming (not bad, just underwhelming) film for me, it grew on me with a couple more viewings. I loved the dialogue and the stark humor.

    I did not mind Hicks and Newt's death for some of the reasons you just cited, Aldo.

    This is not Star Trek or Star Wars where the main heroes (mostly) survive their most harrowing adventures together and come out (mostly) smiling to the strains of Yub Nub at the end of it all. (Mostly)

    This is ALIEN. This is a cold, dark, hard universe where one misstep, or one encounter with the titular life form usually means certain death. The group of heroes does not walk away without a scratch, or without loss.

    Ripley's life is fraught with loss after victory. Her little girl that she never got to see again after her promise to return for her 11th birthday. Newt after her promise that Newt can actually dream peacefully. Hicks after she saved his life. Bishop after coming to understand that not all androids/artificial persons are the same. After great personal victory, she suffers tremendous personal loss.

    Alien Resurrection breaks the rule, having at least three other members of the Betty survive along with the cloned Ripley....much like Star Wars or Star Trek.

    I won't be sore if Alien 3 or Resurrection get ignored, retconned, or what have you...but it is not a deal breaker for me if they don't.

    There is only one thing I want out of (the largely unnecessary) Alien 5: Be a good ALIEN movie.
     
  7. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

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    The story was completely under a writer's control - or in the case of Alien 3, several confused writers, pieces of each each script tossed into the air to see where they land, and a mismanaged and inept production. Let's not confuse fiction that is entirely under the control of those responsible for the "debacle" with reality.

    Fair enough. Let's consider that on the part of the statistical curve that gets chopped off as noise in the data. To be fair, there are others like you who say their deaths were necessary. Obviously, they are mistaken.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  8. Saga

    Saga Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    i don't care if 3 and 4 are ignored...just give me a good film.
     
  9. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

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    Of those who appreciate both Alien 2 and Alien 3, how would you feel if the opening of Alien 3 actually happened at the end of Alien 2?

    I do like that point of view. So, me too. But my best ALIEN movie is one that retcons Alien 3.
     
  10. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    I'm right there with you. For better or worse, Alien 3 and 4 happened. I will be incredibly annoyed if this new film completely retconned them out of existence without an explanation.

    X-Men: DOFP essentially wiped the original trilogy, but they did it using time travel. A clever-enough writer could figure out something to do with Alien.
     
  11. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    That reasoning can be used for every movie ever made. They are all under writers control, unless we include documentaries, but that's a whole different argument.

    Just because a writer is writing it, doesn't mean they can't inject a little reality into it. It's clear they wanted Ripley to be alone at the start of the film, just as she had been at the start of the second. Whether that works for you is entirely up to you, after all in the end it's all personal opinion. You call it a 'debacle' I call it an interesting development.
     
  12. martok2112

    martok2112 Commodore Commodore

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    Indeed. Ripley lived under an unspoken Chinese curse.
    She was living in "interesting times".
     
  13. Gary Mitchell

    Gary Mitchell Admiral Admiral

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    I liked Alien 3 and to a lesser extent, Alien Resurrection. It would be dumb to come out with a new movie that pretends like the events of 2 earlier installments never happened.
     
  14. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

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    This is true from the point of view that the poorly written script which was haphazardly pieced together from several scripts, one of which originally had Hicks as the survivor and star, was the only one possible, where filming began before the script was finished. Ripley could have been isolated by any number of means available to the writer's imagination in a way that left Newt, Hicks and Bishop alive off screen without being in the movie. And that's just for this plot. There could have been a different story told that did not murder the characters and waste the far superior Aliens.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  15. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Me, neither.

    Alien is one of my favorite films. Aliens is a very good film, and I like the others to progressively lesser extents. But, Alien 3 really has its moments, and Alien 4 has a few outstanding moments, too.

    Another way of stating my position is that Alien is a masterpiece, but I'm not that hung up on continuity to worry about how Alien 5 will fit in with, really, any of the other films.

    Aliens is already guilty of revising the creatures, something that stuck out like a sore thumb on first viewing, but that didn't stop me from enjoying Aliens immensely.

    Two films involving the same characters in related events don't need to fit into a unified continuity for me to enjoy both of them.
     
  16. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A disjointed mess of questionable logic.

    Seriously the queen took time out of her get revenge on the humans thing to lay an egg in some part of the ship, no one bothers to look for any eggs just to be safe, and despite it being fucking obvious that the damned things ONLY OPEN IF SOMEONE IS NEAR THEM, it just decides to open and let a face hugger wonder around, but not just any face hugger it's a super awesome one that can implant a person and then instead of dying it crawls off and implants something else, not to mention Weyland Yutani suddenly having everything they would need to capture a freaking alien themselves they send a military crew that destroyes them all just because they wanted to be assholes or something.

    And yes, I know I'm probably putting too much though into it but seriously the damned thing screams diablos ex machina.
     
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  17. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

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    I'm going to say I agree with that point of view. It sounds like Alien 5 could ignore Alien 3 and that would be fine, and Alien 5 could still be a good movie.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  18. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Honestly at this point I'm feeling like the Alien franchise is about as tired and played out as the Terminator franchise. There's no longer any real mystery to the xenomorphs, given that we know their entire life cycle and weaknesses and what every inch of them looks like. And yet no one really wants to see them evolved or re-imagined in any way either, because then they just wouldn't be the same iconic xenomorphs anymore.

    So all that's left it seems is another contrived and time-twisty storyline that tries to somehow work Ripley back into the story, just like we already saw them do with her clone in Resurrection, and just like Genisys tried to do with the older Arnold. And once again I just cannot see that turning out too well.
     
  19. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    In my opinion, the only real way to end the Alien saga at this point is for Ripley to confront the xenomorphs on their homeworld.
     
  20. Mage

    Mage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No, WE don't. You want. Others want. But as you've read, there are plenty of fans who liked Alien 3 and 4, me amongst them. Don't speak for the whole, speak for yourself.

    Alien3 was quite an interesting film, and the director's cut made it a lot better for me still. Resurrection... Sure, it was no where near as good as Alien or Aliens. But it was highly entertaining, and who doesn't love Ron Perlman! ;)

    So, no. Don't speak for all of us, ok?
     
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