A second five-year mission after ST:TMP?

[issreliant]

So was there a second five-year mission after ST:TMP?, i ask because it seems like a lot of time went by between ST:TMP and ST:TWOK. also why would the enterprise be refit just to be used for a training vessel. I know in some books it is stated there was a second mission after the V'ger incident but is this canon? Also it seemed that Kirk in ST:TMP was trying to get back his command of enterprise, but in ST:TWOK he seemed to accept his role as admiral. I just wanted to ask, its a question i have had aguments about with my friends for years.

 

[SchwEnt]

Yeah pretty much true.

In TMP, there's talk of Kirk being out of command for 2.5 years, plus the talk of the Enterprise refit for 18 months. So there's an idea of how long after the series.

Yet in TWOK, Khan speaks of being marooned for 15 years (since the series).

So evidently, several years between TMP and TWOK.

And since TMP ended with a newly refitted Enterprise and Kirk ready to go,
yeah...another five year mission. What else?

 

[Londo]

It seems to be fairly generally accepted that TWOK is 2285, TMP dates range from 2272 to 2277. In either event there seems room for a second five year mission.

 

[Warped9]

I've always assumed so. And that's part of what pisses me off about TWOK and the subsequent films--that we got these "sticking around the neighbourhood" stories instead of boldly going on the frontier a la TOS.

But in fairness this idea could have been hampered partly by movies made every two or three years rather than annually. Now that's something that might have been cool if it had been possible.

 

[Shatinator]

now warp, don't be too harsch, i recall you saying in previous post that you were a big fan of ST II at first, it was only yrs later that you changed position on that film. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but the films were not rolled out annually, I believe the average time was about 2.5 yrs, no?

-The Shatinator

 

[Captain Rob]

"I've always assumed so. And that's part of what pisses me off about TWOK and the subsequent films--that we got these "sticking around the neighbourhood" stories instead of boldly going on the frontier a la TOS."

Star Trek 5 was sticking around the neighborhood? Did you see it? Maybe you're psychologically blocking it out. I'm just glad that I didn't have to pay for it. I saw it as part of my job. And TVH went to 1986.

 

[Warped9]

now warp, don't be too harsch, i recall you saying in previous post that you were a big fan of ST II at first, it was only yrs later that you changed position on that film. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but the films were not rolled out annually, I believe the average time was about 2.5 yrs, no?

-The Shatinator

I liked the films initially. But even then I had some reservations although minor at the time. I do recall, however, having an emphatic debate with a friend the very night after seeing TWOK regarding the uniforms. From the onset I hated those costumes.

 

[Pauln6]

I love the TMP era. A few comics scratched the surface of the second five year mission but I think it's still an untapped gold mine. Dr McCoy: Frontier Doctor is set just prior to TMP and so far it has been good fun, if a bit simplistic.

I'd still like to see a proper full on Phase II style 5-year mission told in comic or animated form, although the simplistic storytelling of the McCoy tales needs to give way to more complex plots with more Federation politics and a wider supporting cast.

 

[F. King Daniel]

There was a post-TMP second 5YM series of comics by Marvel way back. There have been many novels covering this period too ("Ex Machina" being the most recent, and is set right after TMP)

Way before the Star Trek Chronology set the Trek timeline in stone (well...more like clay), there were several authors who postulated a pre-TMP second five-year mission for Kirk and the Enterprise too.

 

[Therin of Andor]

there were several authors who postulated a pre-TMP second five-year mission for Kirk and the Enterprise too.

Yep. When TMP came out, the actors had aged ten full years, and yet TMP seemed to suggest it was under three years since the end of TOS.

So several authors (some who'd written fanfic before turning pro) postulated that after TOS and TAS, the Enterprise was sent out for additional missions. Eventually, the Okudas' "ST Chronology" postulated a second five-year mission in the timeline, but they were asked by GR to ignore TAS and they set this proposed second 5YM straight after TMP, not "Turnabout Intruder".

Diane Duane's "Rihannsu" novels have since been reconfigured to match up with the "ST Chronology".

But the second 5YM is not "canon" because it was never onscreen/live-action.

 

[Timo]

When TMP came out, the actors had aged ten full years, and yet TMP seemed to suggest it was under three years since the end of TOS.

...At a minimum. At least 2.5 years after TOS, but quite possibly a decade or more after the show. Indeed, the movie suggested that a Voyager probe would be "over" 300 years old at that point, which would only be true if the movie took place 300 years after the premiere date or later (first two Voyagers launched in 1977, movie written with the intent of coming out in 1979, movie events supposedly taking place in 2279 or perhaps a bit later).

ST:TMP seems to establish that there was no second 5ym for Kirk between TOS and the movie - otherwise, Kirk would have said his CV featured two such missions, or "ten years out there dealing with unknowns like this", or something to that effect. If the movie is intended to take place in 2279 (or before 2278, to satisfy some fine-tuning introduced in TNG "Cause and Effect") and the sequel in the mid-2280s ("a while" after the 2283 date on McCoy's ale bottle), then there's room for a second 5ym there, but just barely. And dramatically one wouldn't expect such a mission there, because Kirk in the second movie is desk-bound and bored out of his skull, if possible even more so than in the first movie.

Perhaps there was a 2nd 5ym without Kirk? Perhaps with Spock in command of the hero ship, perhaps with some other character altogether? This could have taken place before, after or basically even during TMP. All we know is that Kirk is highly unlikely to have been involved in it - unless we assume TMP took place earlier than the events themselves would indicate.

There's always the slot after ST2-5 but before ST6: supposedly between the mid-2280s and 2293. Kirk would be a lowly Captain again, everybody would assuredly have the cool ST2 uniforms rather than the TMP pajamas, and the plotlines could involve things introduced in ST2-5, such as Carol Marcus or Saavik or renewed Klingon aggression and/or detente, or all sorts of hilarity with the reborn Spock.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Therin of Andor]

Kirk would have said his CV featured two such missions, or "ten years out there dealing with unknowns like this"

Which is why I was careful not to specify it as a second 5YM when talking about the post-TOS/TAS years and pre-TMP. After the 5YM (which TV audiences knew about) the ship completed several shorter term missions, so his "five [straight] years out there dealing with unknowns like this" quote in TMP still works, since the other trips were more random.

It was the post-TMP mission that was specifically stated to be another 5YM.

 

[Pauln6]

It is all a bit vague. The first 5-year mission finished in 2270. If we add 2.5 years to that (assuming the Enterprise crew didn't undertake any missions on an ad-hoc basis) that takes us to 2273. A second 5-year mission would take us to 2278 and that then leaves 7 years for a third 5-year mission plus 2-years training cadets in Twok in 2285. It works for me.

 

[Timo]

his "five [straight] years out there dealing with unknowns like this" quote in TMP still works, since the other trips were more random.

Indeed, we can assume Starfleet would have a large selection of skippers who have decades of cumulative space experience from such short missions - but only a handful with experience on five-year deep space exploration sorties, and perhaps none save Kirk on Earth at that crucial hour.

I trust Kirk's experience isn't solely limited to his 5ym at any point of the movie timeline, even if he never performed another 5ym in his life. All those short missions would still count (especially the ones that ended up saving the Federation). But I would still like to think that a "star hour free" time period preceded the second movie, just like it preceded the first one. Kirk supposedly did carry flag rank all through that time, after all. And people above Commodore rank didn't pop up in deep space, or in command of ships, or even as passengers on ships, in TOS.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Therin of Andor]

We don't even know if 5YMs are standard.

 

[Pauln6]

We don't even know if 5YMs are standard.

I think they are probably quite unusual - limited to deep space exploration missions where you don't want to waste time travelling backwards and forwards into the heart of the Federation for crew rotations all the time (except of course they did do exactly that).

 

[Ssosmcin]

The "5 years out there dealing with unknowns like this" line is interesting. He must only be referring to his time as Captain of the Enterprise. Otherwise it would mean none of his other ship postings got him within any real distance of "unknowns," which would go against his established history.

 

[Warped9]

The whole thing could have salvaged with rewriting a line, changing "five years out there" to "my years out there."

 

[Timo]

Why salvage? Kirk did seem to be the first to run into things that one would think commonplace in retrospect (space amoebae, invisible enemy ships, deities as close as Pollux, parallel Earths), suggesting that few if any had gone there before.

Anyway, Kirk's experience wouldn't lie in knowing about "unknowns", but specifically about "unknowns like this", just like he says. Remember "The Changeling"...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Red Ranger]

I like the idea of there being a second five-year mission, even if it isn't "canon." I also envision them changing their outfits quickly to the TWOK-on uniforms about a year into their mission, as I can't bear the thought of our heroes zipping around the galaxy in earth-tone pajamas with footies for a full five years! Can you imagine the laughter of Klingons when they'd see those outfits? Esp. the footies?