A question about the ‘overture’ theme music heard in Generations...

[Lance]

... the one which is heard when Kirk and Picard are on horseback inside the nexus.

Did Denis McCarthy recycle his original, unused TNG theme music for this piece? Ever since first hearing McCarthy’s original, abandoned TNG theme music a couple of years ago, I’ve often been struck by how similar the two pieces of music are. As we know, the TNG producers ultimately chose to use an arrangement of Jerry Goldsmith’s TMP theme instead. Variations of McCarthy’s original theme music did still make it into the Encounter At Farpoint soundtrack as incidental music, though.

Is there anything documented to say that McCarthy deliberately went back to his own unused 1987 TNG theme as a basis for the overture?

 

[Christopher]

Re: A question about the ‘overture’ theme music heard in Generations..

An odd question. The two motifs are similar, of course, since they're by the same composer, but they're obviously different melodies. The rejected TNG theme opens with a descending fourth, then a pair of ascending fourths (so that notes 2-4 are basically the same as the first three notes of Courage's Trek fanfare), then a rest, then two descending single steps, then another ascending fourth and a descending fifth. The GEN overture motif begins with a descending fifth, a descending second and half-step, then those two steps in reverse, then a flattened third (or something like that).

 

[susanmary428]

Re: A question about the ‘overture’ theme music heard in Generations..

An odd question. The two motifs are similar, of course, since they're by the same composer, but they're obviously different melodies. The rejected TNG theme opens with a descending fourth, then a pair of ascending fourths (so that notes 2-4 are basically the same as the first three notes of Courage's Trek fanfare), then a rest, then two descending single steps, then another ascending fourth and a descending fifth. The GEN overture motif begins with a descending fifth, a descending second and half-step, then those two steps in reverse, then a flattened third (or something like that).

WOW! Talk about knowing your stuff!

 

[Lance]

Re: A question about the ‘overture’ theme music heard in Generations..

An odd question. The two motifs are similar, of course, since they're by the same composer, but they're obviously different melodies. The rejected TNG theme opens with a descending fourth, then a pair of ascending fourths (so that notes 2-4 are basically the same as the first three notes of Courage's Trek fanfare), then a rest, then two descending single steps, then another ascending fourth and a descending fifth. The GEN overture motif begins with a descending fifth, a descending second and half-step, then those two steps in reverse, then a flattened third (or something like that).

Thanks for the info Christopher!

I don’t pretend to know anything at all about constructing music, but it has always struck me how similar the two pieces are on some level (it could just be because they’re both by the same composer as you say). Wikipedia claims that the Generations overture does take inspiration from “the Picard theme heard through season one”, which I had always assumed was the cue heard at the very beginning of Encounter At Farpoint (which is basically a rearranged version of McCarthy’s abandoned theme music IIRC). But again, I’m probably wrong about that too. I’ve often wondered about it though.

Thanks again for your answer.

 

[Doug Otte]

Re: A question about the ‘overture’ theme music heard in Generations..

I can't add anything substantive to the thread (and Christopher has already answered it thoroughly). I just want to point out that an overture is an opening instrumental piece before an opera begins. It usually states the main themes while the rubes seat themselves. A soundtrack piece in the middle of a movie is not an overture.

Doug

 

[Christopher]

Re: A question about the ‘overture’ theme music heard in Generations..

^But the cue Lance is referring to is in fact titled "Star Trek Generations Overture" and is the first track on the soundtrack album, before the "Main Title" track with which the film opened. (I think it might actually have been the end title track in the film proper, but that's what it's called on the album.)

 

[Ryann866]

Re: A question about the ‘overture’ theme music heard in Generations..

I actually think that both McCarthy themes (the unused TNG title and the Generations theme) are pretty horrible and uninspired. very happy they used Goldsmith's TMP score.

Most of McCarthy's thematic material always struck me as if he was trying too hard.

 

[Doug Otte]

Re: A question about the ‘overture’ theme music heard in Generations..

^But the cue Lance is referring to is in fact titled "Star Trek Generations Overture" and is the first track on the soundtrack album, before the "Main Title" track with which the film opened. (I think it might actually have been the end title track in the film proper, but that's what it's called on the album.)

Thanks for the correction (about the labeling error, which was not Lance's error...oy!).

Doug