A little kudos....

[Hoshi_Mayweather]

As a Trek viewer that has grown unhappy with the lack of diversity in Trek, and the feel in later Trek incarnations that females have to dress (and almost act) masculine in order to be respected...

I have to give kudos to the fans (primarily of 'New Voyages'...'Starship: Farragut'...and 'Starship Exeter') who pretty much show us what Trek is all about...(fun, adventurous, diverse (racially, gender-wise, etc...)

Of course, as someone who is dating a man whose career goal is film, I'm impressed with the effects and sets (although, I know the acting is something that the non-professionals will definitely grow into as time goes on).

'New Voyages' has expanded on Sulu and Chekhov (or at least will expand on Sulu)...and I hope to see some stories based on Scotty and/or Uhura...

Characters that were not touched upon in the original series.

Too, it looks like Sulu (in an upcoming episode) has a daughter who is a 'Blasian (half-black/half-Asian)'...and looking in the background, there are females who hold their own as security officers...

'Starship Farragut' also has that feel of adventure, diversity...(and the captain's love interest is an Italian-African-American officer)...

Not too mention, the people working in front and in back of the scenes has a good mix of individuals.

'Starship Exeter' has a captain (who looks like he might be from that TOS era!) and a strong female first officer who knows when to be practical on her own terms, and when not too...

Not too mention, they have an Andorian!

It interesting that one of the crewmembers who worked on 'Starship Farragut' commented how Trek has lost that 'feel;' something they wanted to bring back in their production...

I think these productions have definitely succeeded. (And, who knows? Maybe these individuals will go on to bigger and better projects, which they'll continue to have fun on!)

Congrats...:thumbsup:

 

[MikeH92467]

I think there is indeed a future as professionals for many of the amateurs behind these fan films. I especially have to praise James and his New Voyages crew for having the discipline to turn out ever improving products on a shoestring budget and on a more or less regular schedule. (No critism of the Exeter crew implied, they're choosing a different path and so be it) People who know how do that kind of work under those kinds of conditions are (or should be IMHO) always going to be in demand.

I have to note that when you read "The Making of Star Trek" (TOS) you find out that many of the things that made TOS so special were a direct result of budget cutting and penny pinching. The most glaring example was the transporter which GR and company dreamed up as a way of eliminating costly models, sets and SFX for shuttling crew members to the surface. GR himself noted that not only did it save money, it also allowed the writers to go directly to the action resulting in a faster pace and more time for plot development.

IMHO opinion, part of "Enterprise's" problem was that they weren't forced into that kind of creativity. While I'm sure that no producers ever have as much money as they want, I feel that the E-team got caught up in flashy set design and SFX when TOS and the fan films are showing over and over again that compelling story lines are the foundation of a successful series, not an afterthought.

 

[Noname Given]

MikeH92467 said:
I think there is indeed a future as professionals for many of the amateurs behind these fan films. I especially have to praise James and his New Voyages crew for having the discipline to turn out ever improving products on a shoestring budget and on a more or less regular schedule. (No critism of the Exeter crew implied, they're choosing a different path and so be it) People who know how do that kind of work under those kinds of conditions are (or should be IMHO) always going to be in demand.

I have to note that when you read "The Making of Star Trek" (TOS) you find out that many of the things that made TOS so special were a direct result of budget cutting and penny pinching. The most glaring example was the transporter which GR and company dreamed up as a way of eliminating costly models, sets and SFX for shuttling crew members to the surface. GR himself noted that not only did it save money, it also allowed the writers to go directly to the action resulting in a faster pace and more time for plot development.

IMHO opinion, part of "Enterprise's" problem was that they weren't forced into that kind of creativity. While I'm sure that no producers ever have as much money as they want, I feel that the E-team got caught up in flashy set design and SFX when TOS and the fan films are showing over and over again that compelling story lines are the foundation of a successful series, not an afterthought.

Well, if that last part is indeed the case, are you saying that TNG (who's budget was expanded as the series progressed) and Ds9 also suffered? ENT's episode budget by comparison was being reduced each season and cut to about 33% of what it was in season one (of course I'm probably shooting myself in thne foot here as I thought the 4th season of ENT was it' most creative, including their recreation of a TOS starship bridge set).

Also, remember that for it's day, the original Star Trek was the most expensive series ever produced to that point in TV history; and if you compare it the the major science fiction films of the era (including 2001) - by that standard a lot of the effects shots they managed to create were 'motion picture quality' for the time. So, for a TV show, TOS was in fact quite well funded by the studio too.

 

[MikeH92467]

^^^All your points are well taken. I'm not suggesting that lower budgets automatically mean better TV. It's just that there are circumstances where creative people can end up with a better product when they have to find alternatives to "it's always been done that way."

I think everyone would agree with you about Enterprise and the 4th season, but again it could be argued that they had a better creative team rather than any mystical benefits from budget cuts.

You are quite right that TOS was quite heavily budgeted for the time, but its well to remember that they were in completely uncharted territory. It's also worth remembering that they weren't just trying to convincingly depict different locations, like a standard cop show or even a western, but different planets and a lot of their stuff had to be made from scratch and reusing it was a lot tougher too.

It really does kind of boil down to a chicken or the egg type of argument, doesn't it?

I think it really gets back to the fact that TOS captured lightning in a bottle and while all the other series had their moments of excellence (yes even Voyager and Enterprise0, special credit IMHO opinions goes to the pioneers.

 

[Trekwatcher]

I definitely feel that these films are the most exciting thing to happen to Star Trek fandom in years and years. I happened across Exeter's first outing by accident a few years ago (before I discovered this bbs) and then quickly found NV and some others. I have consistently been impressed by the quality of the work in these and other fan films, and must tip my hat to the enormous amount of work and dedication (not to mention money) that it must take to make these.

I am eagerly awaiting the next installments of Exeter, New Voyages, Starship Farragut, and Intrepid, to name a few. :thumbsup:

 

[Hoshi_Mayweather]

I'm with Trekwatcher...

Too, I just wanted to add:

It's nice that these productions are acknowledging the actors and actresses that have worked on the classic series, as 'they made it all happen.'

Some of those actors and actresses look pretty good today!

 

[Captain Robert April]

Noname Given said:
Also, remember that for it's day, the original Star Trek was the most expensive series ever produced to that point in TV history; and if you compare it the the major science fiction films of the era (including 2001) - by that standard a lot of the effects shots they managed to create were 'motion picture quality' for the time. So, for a TV show, TOS was in fact quite well funded by the studio too.

Still wasn't big enough to meet the needs of the show. Another fifty thousand per episode would've gone a long ways towards fixing some of the more obvious gaffes, like constantly recycling footage from the first two pilots despite the obvious changes in the ship's exterior. And even if they'd had that extra budget, they still would've wound up digging through Mission: Impossible's dumpsters for stuff they could reuse as set dressing.

 

[Just_Bob]

Captain Robert April said:

Noname Given said:
Also, remember that for it's day, the original Star Trek was the most expensive series ever produced to that point in TV history; and if you compare it the the major science fiction films of the era (including 2001) - by that standard a lot of the effects shots they managed to create were 'motion picture quality' for the time. So, for a TV show, TOS was in fact quite well funded by the studio too.

Still wasn't big enough to meet the needs of the show. Another fifty thousand per episode would've gone a long ways towards fixing some of the more obvious gaffes, like constantly recycling footage from the first two pilots despite the obvious changes in the ship's exterior. And even if they'd had that extra budget, they still would've wound up digging through Mission: Impossible's dumpsters for stuff they could reuse as set dressing.

Indeed. Given the notable and substantial funds that Trek was provided, at that time, it (Star Trek) was a rather difficult project to produce during that somewhat early era of broadcast television. Another fifty thousand dollars per episode would have been a significant and welcome boost but, for the time, the complexities of such a show demanded more.

 

[Thalek]

It's quite clear to me that the enormous improvement in the 4th season of Enterprise was due to the improvement in the creative staff, not any budgetary considerations.

That said, it's true that sometimes, running things on a shoestring force a certain kind of creativity that tends not to exist when the sky is no longer limit. (And while TOS was indeed well-funded for a normal show for the era, it was a shoestring budget for what they were trying to accomplish. Their makeup and SFX requirements alone were huge by the standards of the time.)

But ultimately, it isn't about budgets or cleverness, it's about the story. If the story is compelling, everything else about its presentation tends to fade into the background. A good story lets you forget about the mediocre acting, the duct-taped props, the problems with the CGI, all of it.

Without a compelling story (note that I haven't said a "good" story, just a compelling one), the best production values in the world, fan or professional, cannot save it. People tend to think of fan productions as similar to the famous quote about the dancing bear: "The miracle is not that the bear dances so well, the miracle is that the bear dances." But we've all seen our share of professional productions that fell flat, and it was largely due to a lack of a compelling story.

That's what some of the fan productions have managed to achieve: they came up with a compelling story to tell.

 

[Just_Bob]

Thalek said:That's what some of the fan productions have managed to achieve: they came up with a compelling story to tell.

Well stated. A well supported budget is a needed component to any production. But, in the end, it's the story; the writing that drives. Creativity is the key regardless of the funding. $180,000,000 will provide great sets and stunning FX but the story must be compelling.