A Hypotetical Muppet Question

[Hawkeye92]

There was a news story a few weeks ago about Dr. Dre creating a holographic Tupac Shakur, here is the link if you are curious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGbrFmPBV0Y

Anyway, this got me thinking , it looks like that soon enough the technology might make it possible to bring Jim Henson back to life in a way, by making a composite of his voice via Kermit the Frog. We could have Kermit sound like he's supposed to again. I have yet to watch the new movie, I plan to watch it today, but still it seems like as good as the imitators are, I'd rather have Henson's voice. What do you guys think, is it possible, will it be possible, do you care?

 

[Christopher]

What would be the point of duplicating the voice if you couldn't duplicate the mind and talent behind it?

 

[Hawkeye92]

Well, I just wonder if it's possible, but I suppose with the right talent, you can stay true to the characters, the voice would just be an added bonus for the fans. It would be nice just to hear his voice again, that's all.

 

[P0sitr0nic]

The guy who does Kermit now does him well.

 

[Hawkeye92]

I just blind bought the new movie, I'm excited to see it.

 

[Timby]

The guy who does Kermit now does him well.

And he isn't exactly a newcomer. Steve Whitmire's been portraying Kermit for more than twenty years.

 

[J.T.B.]

What would be the point of duplicating the voice if you couldn't duplicate the mind and talent behind it?

Agreed. If there's something the character is "supposed to " be, I don't think a robo-performed voice is it.

I am about the same age as Sesame Street, so to me Kermit without Henson's voice will always sound "wrong." But it's been over 20 years now, those days are gone, and I don't see why succeeding performers shouldn't have the chance to do their best for new generations of audience members on their own terms.

Justin

 

[sojourner]

Wasn't that holograph thing debunked anyways?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I'm surprised Kermit was the first thing that popped into your head after seeing the Tupac hologram.

 

[Sci]

There was a news story a few weeks ago about Dr. Dre creating a holographic Tupac Shakur, here is the link if you are curious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGbrFmPBV0Y

Anyway, this got me thinking , it looks like that soon enough the technology might make it possible to bring Jim Henson back to life in a way, by making a composite of his voice via Kermit the Frog. We could have Kermit sound like he's supposed to again. I have yet to watch the new movie, I plan to watch it today, but still it seems like as good as the imitators are, I'd rather have Henson's voice. What do you guys think, is it possible, will it be possible, do you care?

I'm not sure what you mean by "the imitators." There's only a single Muppeteer playing Kermit since Henson's death -- Steve Whitmire. Who, I might add, had been chosen by Henson to start playing Kermit even before his death, when Henson felt that he was overreaching and couldn't continue playing Kermit at every performance.

 

[Christopher]

^That's true, but just to be ultra-technical about it, a few other people have portrayed Kermit in very limited contexts:

http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Kermit_the_Frog#Changing_Performers

John Kennedy performed Kermit for a demonstration at Muppetfest in 2001 (opposite Whitmire's "young Kermit") and in 2006 for Muppets Ahoy! During September 2009, Kermit was performed by Artie Esposito for appearances on America's Got Talent, the MTV Video Music Awards and the second day of the D23 Expo singing "The Rainbow Connection"...

The Muppet Wiki describes Esposito as the understudy for Kermit, and I'd imagine that what he does is to provide the physical performance in circumstances where the voice is to be dubbed in from another source (for instance, if Kermit is a background player in a scene where Whitmire's playing a different character such as Rizzo).

Also Frank Welker played Baby Kermit in the animated Muppet Babies series.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I'm not sure how I would feel about it. There was controversy surrounding a similar technique they used in Superman Returns, and I think they partly recreated his voice, unless I'm wrong? I just know there was some controversy, though I might be misremembering the details. I think it's honestly just best to remember the deceased as they are rather than trying to create new memories of them.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Tupac wasn't a hologram, but an image projected on a mylar screen.

[Though the virtual Tupac has been widely described as a hologram, it is in fact a 2D image projected to appear as a 3D effect. To achieve this, a digital image of the Tupac animation was projected onto a reflective surface on the floor of the stage, which then bounced on to a piece of Mylar that reflects the image while appearing otherwise clear. When Snoop Dogg appeared to be rapping along with Tupac, he was standing behind the Mylar screen.

​

It's not even new tech - it's years old. There's no way to replicate the vocal performance of an individual other than by impersonation or using archival recordings.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I agree with everyone that it would not work and is not necessary. Steve does a great job.,

I remember seeing Mel Blanc's son on TV years ago showing how he was compiling a database on computer of his father's voice, after his death, of old performances as the Looney Tunes characters. So that separate words could be constructed for new sentences.

I not sure if anything came of that. I could see it working only with limited audio for toys and other merchandise. The closest thing I know of is recent computer animated Looney Tunes shorts used songs Mel recorded in character decades ago. Made specifically for vinyl records. But those where using actual performances edited the way new ones would be. Not using a "Frankenstein style" patch work for creating new sentences.

By the way, we did her a little of Jim Henson as Kermit in the new movie. As Kermit walks in the Muppet Theater for the first time in years. He is remembering the Muppet Show and hears himself announcing host Bob Hope. Which was Jim's voice. Also the recording of "Mahna Mahna" at the end of the film is Jim's performance.

 

[Hawkeye92]

I agree with everyone that it would not work and is not necessary. Steve does a great job.,

I remember seeing Mel Blanc's son on TV years ago showing how he was compiling a database on computer of his father's voice, after his death, of old performances as the Looney Tunes characters. So that separate words could be constructed for new sentences.

I not sure if anything came of that. I could see it working only with limited audio for toys and other merchandise. The closest thing I know of is recent computer animated Looney Tunes shorts used songs Mel recorded in character decades ago. Made specifically for vinyl records. But those where using actual performances edited the way new ones would be. Not using a "Frankenstein style" patch work for creating new sentences.

By the way, we did her a little of Jim Henson as Kermit in the new movie. As Kermit walks in the Muppet Theater for the first time in years. He is remembering the Muppet Show and hears himself announcing host Bob Hope. Which was Jim's voice. Also the recording of "Mahna Mahna" at the end of the film is Jim's performance.

This is kind of what I was thinking about, compiling a database of words and frases that would make complete sentences. I guess it would be really tedious and expensive and pointless, it was just a thought.

For the record, when I saw the Tupac thing, my first thought was to do something similar with the Beatles, I just thought about the Muppets as I was thinking about watching the movie today.

I was unaware that the same guy had been doing Kermit for a long time, I jst kind of came up with the idea out of nowhere.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

One of the cell phone companies in England had Tom Baker read your text. Youtube has some funny examples. I don't know if anyone else has done anything like that.

 

[Christopher]

I remember seeing Mel Blanc's son on TV years ago showing how he was compiling a database on computer of his father's voice, after his death, of old performances as the Looney Tunes characters. So that separate words could be constructed for new sentences.

That doesn't sound quite right. Noel Blanc sounded uncannily like his father and was able to do nearly note-perfect imitations of all his characters except Yosemite Sam (who was just too loud and rough-voiced). He was the heir apparent, the one everyone expected to take over the roles when Mel Blanc died. So making recordings to reconstruct his father's voice would've been redundant when he could already do it himself. Maybe what you're recalling is a set of recordings he made so he could study his father's performances and practice recreating them.

For some reason, though, when the time came, Warner Bros. didn't hire Noel Blanc to take over the roles. They initially went with Jeff Bergman, who was a simply awful choice -- he could do fairly good impressions of a lot of the characters, but wasn't much of an actor, so his performances just didn't have the personality and emotion that Blanc's did. Since then they've gone with a range of different actors, notably including Bob Bergen, Billy West, and Joe Alaskey (who in my mind is the best successor). The only times Noel Blanc has played any of his father's characters onscreen were as Porky and Taz in a few Tiny Toon Adventures episodes and as Elmer Fudd in a couple of episodes of (ugh) Family Guy. Even though he's the one person on Earth who can recreate the voices just about exactly. To this day, I don't understand why Warner Bros. didn't use him in the role he was groomed for and instead went with inferior imitations. Maybe they felt he was asking for too much money? Or conversely, maybe he decided, like so many of us, that he didn't want to be defined by who his father was and declined to follow in his footsteps.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I am sure you are right. It was a long time ago, I was probably in Middle or High School. I do know of Noel Blanc doing his father voices. They were together on the Making of special for Roger Rabbit shown on TV at the time of its release. Whatever I saw after that did not make sense even at the time.

I have read that it is a money issue as to why Warner Bros has never settled with a consistent actor to replace Mel Blanc, whether Noel or anyone else. It must of been on Mark Evanier's blog http://www.newsfromme.com which I read all the time.

He is a writer for animation and comics. He is an expert on this stuff and has personal connections to many voice actors. I will look it up, but I believe that he said that WB thought Mel Blanc got too much acclaim for his work. That animators like Chuck Jones and Friz Freleng resented that he was more famous than them. That to the general public he was perceived as solely responsible for creating the characters,. Which also bothered the studio because he was in a position to demand a lot of money. So they tried not to repeat that with a known successor.

Which is very different than Disney. Generally the voice actors of Mickey, Donald and Goofy have played them for years. Often having been trained by the previous performer.

 

[Dick Whitman]

UPDATE http://www.newsfromme.com/?s=Noel+Blanc Here it is. Yeah, its what I said. Also that Noel makes good money outside of animation and does not want to or need to spend as much time as his father did in a recording studio.

 

[Kelso]

Henson is one of my heroes. He was a visionary and an amazing performer... but he's dead now and he ain't coming back.

Steve Whitmire is doing a fantastic job.