A bartender.............on a warship!

[The Old Mixer]

How did Guinan and Picard even meet in this timeline? While in the real-world it hasn't been written yet, in the show Guinan and Picard meet in the 19th century when Picard travels back in time to there from the future. Something not likely to happen given the ship's mission and that alt-Picard himself says the Federation is months away from surrendering/losing the war. So Picard never travels back to 19th century Earth, never meets Guinan in the past which means he and Guinan never meet, he never seeks her out to bring her onto the warship to relax things a bit and... oh dear I've gone cross-eyed.

My pet theory is that in the 19th century, Guinan still met the Picard from the "normal" timeline...from her perspective, that was a valid alternate future...the moment in time when the timeline was altered was well over 400 years away. She knew that there was something wrong with the YE timeline because it didn't match her own past dealings with Picard (which may have also included a second meeting with the "normal" Picard 100 years previously in the Nexus, from her perspective--she said she was an "echo", but if time has no meaning in the Nexus, then there's no reason Picard and Guinan's paths couldn't have actually intersected there).

 

[Timewalker]

Well, as I said in the Troi/Guinan/Counselor thread it's impossible to know "how good of a counselor" Troi was given that we didn't really see many of her sessions and what we DID see we didn't see much of. It's unfair to say Gunian was the better counselor. Guinan was a bartender, a woman with centuries of experience, sure, but still... a bartender.

Troi presumably spent years in school, as an intern, in a fellowship or whatever else to become a doctor or a professional counselor. There's a VAST difference between unloading your daily problems with a bartender in one sitting and spending an hour a week for months or even years in counseling speaking to a someone about your deepest problems and fears.

Hating on Troi of a counselor sort of goes with the idea many people have these days about dis-believing the hardships and realities of mental illness. It's not something you just talk-off with a friend one night at a bar. It takes REAL work and discussion, something Guinan unlikely had the time or real qualifications to do. Sure, she's may be a good listener and may have good advice but does she have the training and know-how to guide someone out of a serious depression? Battling anxiety? Battling any number of other mental disorders?

That was Troi's actual job and not something we really got to focus on since the show was a space-drama not a medical procedural about mental illness.

I'm not arguing that Troi had the professional training. I'm just saying that from what we saw on-screen, I'd personally trust Guinan more then Troi for certain issues.

If it were something of an ongoing issue that would possibly require additional kinds of therapy (ie. the way some people suffering from depression today receive both counseling and antidepressants or some other drug therapy), of course I'd go to Troi.

As for saying Guinan is "just" a bartender (I know, you didn't say that in those exact words, but it's what your sentiment appears to be - feel free to correct me if I've misunderstood)... she may be a bartender now but she's lived an incredibly long life and had so many other experiences. Guinan never struck me as the sort of character that would have such a narrow range of interests that she wouldn't want to take advantage of whatever opportunities came her way for learning and life experience.

 

[borgboy]

I do like the theory that Guinan still met Picard in the 19th century in YE timeline. I'm adopting that as my theory too.

 

[jimbotron]

I liked the fact that Guinan had such key roles in the season finales/premieres of BOBW, Redemption and Time's Arrow. It's a shame she only made two appearances (aside from the movies) after Time's Arrow Part II, and both were brief roles.

Season 7 was not kind to the guest stars. Barclay's episode sucked, Lwaxana's was a downer (though not being a farce, it was an improvement) Ro had one episode where she was given the heave ho, and Guinan was AWOL.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Maybe Guinan had the instinct something was up and she needed to be on the Enterprise so she offered to serve drinks to help ease the soldiers nerves.

 

[Lance]

I can't speak for navy ships, but certainly all of the army bases I've worked at in my life have had bars. Though they've never been tended by a "bartender" exactly, certainly not a civilian... simply a regular soldier designated that role for the night.

 

[Cyke101]

To the above: Starfleet doesn't have to conform to 21st century military standards. Where does it say otherwise?

Right. I feel like that the handful of times in which hero captains (particularly Picard) do something decidedly not within the military standards of today, that they'll cite something like the captain's perogative (liberty, privilege, etc). It's a nice way for the writers to circumvent any sort of limitations in the rules of writing the military that we might think of by default. Which is fine really, since Starfleet is a different animal.

 

[Armored Saint]

Hypothesis: In this alternate timeline, Guinan's main function is not bartender nor counselor, but chaplain.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Guinan has never seemed particularly religious, so I'm doubting that's the case.

Indeed, a crew that size - over 6,000 troops, according to Tasha - would probably have hundreds of chaplains. In the normal timeline, with a crew of about 1,000, at least a dozen.

 

[Trekker4747]

Humans in general don't seem particularly religious, I doubt they have any need for a chaplin.

 

[Armored Saint]

Here, in Quebec and Canada, this kind of function in public establishment is now often secular, so the main thing is now the accompaniment and the spiritual side comes after and it's done outside the formal framework.

 

[Cyke101]

Humans in general don't seem particularly religious, I doubt they have any need for a chaplin.

There may be crewmembers from religious non-human worlds and cultures serving aboard, though, for all we know, like the Bajorans.

There might also be humanist chaplains, too. The Netherlands have humanist, athiest chaplains in their military. But an extensive study in theology could translate to being able to provide a confidential, trustworthy service to people who practice different religions, too, from being aware of and knowing how to study religion in general.

 

[Mister Spock]

At the very least, there's probably a room set aside somewhere for religious congregations. Or if anyone was to hold a religious ceremony - wedding, christening, funeral etc. - Ten Forward would be the most likely place to hold it. Whilst religion could still be around, hopefully religious intolerance isn't.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

She also sang, danced, and did stand-up comedy. She was like a one-being UFPO show.

Well I mean, it is Whoopi Goldberg.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Looks to me like Guinan was aware of all the good reasons mentioned here not to be on a warship but the only one in this alternate reality to really understand it.

Theoretically the whole situation could have been Q's little revenge to what Guinan did to him earlier:

DATA: The Captain and many of the crew are not yet convinced he is truly human.
GUINAN: Really?
(So she picks up a fork and stabs it into Q's hand)
Q: Argh!
GUINAN: Seems human enough to me.

Certainly, Q would have had some fun watching Guinan how she desperately tried to explain the situation and get out of it.

Guinan arrived with other refugees in ST VII so she could have meet Picard somewhere else at Starfleet in the alternate reality.

But that eventually depends on how you'd like to interpret this little dialogue from BoBW, IMHO:

GUINAN: ... Did he ever tell you why we're so close?
RIKER: No.
GUINAN: Well, then let me just our relationship is beyond friendship, beyond family. And I will let him go.

I'm not aware that this was ever explained, but it's obvious that Guinan considered the possibility that Picard told Riker but would never do so herself and probably because it could damage Picard's reputation in the eyes of Riker.

It has since become my pet theory that during their idle time in the cavern in "Time's Arrow" Picard actually told Guinan about the Borg assimilating her people and planet in the 23rd Century, so she would have an advance warning that eventually would bring her back to Earth in ST VII.

If the alternate reality Picard never travelled back in time to give her that warning, chances are high she would have never escaped the Borg and therefore not been able to serve on any starship at all.

Bob