50 yrs ago ..Yesterday..Fastest manned spacecraft launched..

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by MANT!, May 19, 2019.

  1. MANT!

    MANT! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Mar 14, 2005
    in Atomo-vision
  2. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jan 14, 2004
    Asbo Zaprudder
    The rocket equation is a bugger so enough Delta-V is enough.
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  3. XCV330

    XCV330 _ Premium Member

    Sep 24, 2017
    wierd fact: the lunar module, Snoopy, is probably still in a solar orbit. There have been attempts to detect it, and at least one NEA sighting was suspected to be a false-positive caused by the very shiny Snoopy instead.

    (edited.. typed NEAR, meant NEA)
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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  4. Orac

    Orac Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Feb 22, 2007
    The TARDIS
    I was looking at that wikipedia article linked to in the OP and I have a few stupid questions about one of the photos..

    How was this photo of the Command Module orbiting the moon taken? Isn't this the wrong angle to have been taken from the Lander? Did the Lander fly up and over the CM just to get this photo?

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  5. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jan 14, 2004
    Asbo Zaprudder
    If the photo was taken after initial separation, I believe the LM manoeuvred close to the CSM so the CM pilot, Young, could verify visually that all four of the LM's legs were deployed and latched correctly. From other photos I've seen, this appeared to be done with the LM against the darker background of space as viewed from the CM.

    If taken just prior to docking the ascent stage of the LM, the Apollo 10 LM was the active seeker in the manoeuvering and rendezvous so it might well have intercepted the CSM from above. (Before separating the ascent and descent stages, the LM was in a somewhat elliptical orbit that varied between 11 and 190 miles above the surface of the Moon. After firing the ascent engine, I assume Stafford and Cernan circularised the orbit to near the 60 mile altitude of the CSM after either catching up from a lower orbit or waiting for the CSM to catch up by placing the LM in a higher orbit.)

    So, some possibilities there - I don't actually know.
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  6. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Dec 26, 2002
    Houston, we have a problem...
    ^ I believe that is correct. If they didn't lock - no landing would be possible. Of course Apollo 10 was just a test run for Apollo 11.
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  7. XCV330

    XCV330 _ Premium Member

    Sep 24, 2017

    The Apollo AGC had a preset Program 20 for rendezvous maneuvering, CMC on the Command Module and whatever it was called equivalent on the LEM. They did do a flyaround. Actually it was not without some problems as there was trouble both with finding Snoopy at one point, and with a fuel cell.

    The transcript is interesting. Here's a snippet. Bear in mind the Apollo Guidance Computer used what would be a strange to us system of Subject and Verb for its interface.:

    133:43:30 Young (onboard): Yes. pitch up and get him with the optics...
    133:43:31 Stafford (onboard): OK. You got some Sun out there. babe. He's going out.
    133:43:36 Young (onboard): Oh, OK.
    133:43:37 Stafford (onboard): Now he looks a little out of plane - a couple of degrees. on the bellyband. What's he look like to you. babe? OK. I got him 12 degrees below the X-axis. John.
    133:44:08 Cernan (onboard): No question about - about what it is, I'll tell you.
    133:44:13 Young (onboard): You got him 12 degrees below the X-axis?
    133:44:14 Stafford (onboard): Yes.
    133:44:11 Young (onboard): Oh, shit. I turned the optics off. Here comes the optics back on - Watch - watch it. I got him - I got him - I got him!
    133:44:21 Stafford (onboard): OK. OK. Start tracking him. Well, if we start our TEI, we're going to be climbing out like mad, see? And he's going to be up above us, and we'll be going right through that thing.
    133:44:54 Cernan (onboard): That's right. We would have fired TEI [garble] minutes ago.
    133:44:58 Stafford (onboard): You damn right...
    133:44:59 Young (onboard): Snoopy.
    133:45:00 Cernan (onboard): Huh?
    133:45:01 Young (onboard): I got him.
    133:45:11 Stafford (onboard): Shit. I could nearly see his legs from here.
    133:45:13 Cernan (onboard): I know it.
    133:45:14 Young (onboard): I can't see any legs from here. He must be a long ways off.
    133:45:17 Stafford (onboard): You can't in the scope?
    133:45:19 Young (onboard): Yes. I cannot.
    133:45:20 Stafford (onboard): You cannot.
    [The Apollo optical navigation telescope is a unity-power instrument and hence provides no magnification.]
    133:45:22 Young (onboard): [Garble] the tunnel for a bit - babe. Goddamn it, P20; knock that shit off. I got him. Hold what you got, TP.
    [Young has been trying to use Program 20 in option 4. This option is used to acquire the LM in the sextant field of view. Having acquired the LM descent stage he now wants Stafford to maintain the current attitude rather than let the CMC drive the auto-optics.]
    133:45:34 Stafford (onboard): OK.
    133:45:39 Young (onboard): You sure that's him out there?
    133:45:40 Stafford (onboard): Babe, that's got to be him.
    133:45:43 Young (onboard): I think that is a planet.
    133:45:44 Stafford (onboard): Huh?
    133:45:45 Cernan (onboard): That's him, babe. No, that's him.
    133:45:56 Young (onboard): Oh, look at this freaker calculate.
    133:46:06 Stafford (onboard): That ain't no planet, John, baby.
    133:46:12 Young (onboard): Well, I don't know what the hell it...
    133:46:19 Stafford (onboard): He isn't that far out there.
    133:46:21 Young (onboard): Looks like a planet.
    133:46:24 Stafford (onboard): It couldn't be, John.
    133:46:25 Cernan (onboard): It couldn't be, John. We've seen him go in reflected sunlight and disappear...
    133:46:29 Stafford (onboard): Yes, but - what was - that wasn't no planet going down below us like a scalded...
    133:46:31 Cernan (onboard): No, and that's exactly where he'd be.
    133:46:48 Young (onboard): Now a Verb 37 [garble]. OK. OK. Let's just get some accurate GET time - time hacks on his position.
    [Verb 37 is used to change between programs.]
    133:47:11 Stafford (onboard): OK. Stand by. Gene-o, got the clock ready to mark?
    133:47:20 Young (onboard): I - I don't know - I - There's no way - there's no way for me to...
    133:47:25 Stafford (onboard): Babe, that isn't any planet, I'll clue you. He's got dimensions to him.
    133:47:28 Cernan (onboard): That's right; he does...
    133:47:29 Young (onboard): I tell you...
    133:47:30 Cernan (onboard): ...he's tumbling [garble]...
    133:47:31 Stafford (onboard): Can you track him...
    133:47:32 Young (onboard): Have you got the...
    133:47:33 Cernan (onboard): ...tumbling in the sextant. You ought to see it through the monocular.
    133:47:38 Stafford (onboard): I'm trying to say he's out of plane here, but the odd here. He's pitching up all the time, going above us.
    133:47:48 Cernan (onboard): OK. John. I'm ready to record some marks on time...
    133:47:51 Young (onboard): My God. I don't have any state vector or nothing I can't. Well, let me do it this way.
    133:48:03 Stafford (onboard): Well, I could - I could put the X-axis on him and track local horizontal. and it can get something from there.
    133:48:10 Young (onboard): Oh, shit; that'll lock the freaking computer up.
    133:48:14 Cernan (onboard): Still got him. Tom?
    133:48:15 Stafford (onboard): Oh, you better believe I've got him.
    133:48:16 Cernan (onboard): Sun's in my eyes. I can't see him.
    133:48:19 Young (onboard): Well, hell...
    133:48:20 Cernan (onboard): Doesn't he look like he's tumbling to you. Tom?
    133:48:23 Young (onboard): ...let's just stay in this attitude, until we get to the ground.
    133:48:26 Stafford (onboard): Huh?
    133:48:27 Young (onboard): When are we going to get ground contact?
    133:48:28 Cernan (onboard): In about...
    133:48:30 Stafford (onboard): You ought to - I'll stand by to put the plus-X on him. You can't do any good marking on him inertially, can you?
    133:48:38 Young (onboard): Well - but wait a minute...
    133:48:39 Cernan (onboard): ...10 minutes, John.
    133:48:40 Young (onboard): ...the ground can read this stuff. They can figure out just where he is.
    133:48:41 Stafford (onboard): OK.
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  8. feek61

    feek61 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Nov 25, 2011
    In the Sunshine!
    You are 100% correct
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  9. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 22, 2010