3-Shift / 4-Shift Rotation question

[Ethros]

So in TNG: Chain of Command its stated Enterprise has a 3-shift rotation. Now it's hardly the same as a Starship but years ago I used to work in a 24hr place, and there were three shifts one after each other so it was always manned-
7am-3pm
3pm-11pm
11pm-7am

That's an 8 hour shift, pretty standard. So I'm guessing the Enterprise does something similar. Then Jellico wants to change it to a 4-shift rotation.

I just wondered what does that actually mean? So I presume maybe the shifts would be something like-
6am-12pm
12pm-6pm
6pm-12am
12am-6am

So did the crew then only have to work 6 hours a day? Then they actually got more free time? That doesn't sound very efficient.
Or do you have to work two of those 4 shifts, which would be 12 hours a day... but if they were one after the other you might as well call it a 2-shift rotation of two 12 hrs, as if not when the hell are you meant to get a decent sleep?

 

[drt]

The "shifts" in Star Trek never really made any sense. Riker really never should have been on the bridge at the same time as Picard unless the ship was at alert.

My thinking, particularly by the time of TNG, is that really the ship does most of the work, and the crew just sort of monitors the ship - so there probably isn't a huge difference in efficiency between working 8 or 6 hours. And stuff like the science labs, unless there is some kind of emergency, probably aren't manned round the clock anyway.

 

[Admiral2]

So did the crew then only have to work 6 hours a day? Then they actually got more free time? That doesn't sound very efficient.

It makes perfect sense if you want the whole crew to be better rested for the time when everybody would be forced to confront the Cardassians, a time that was fast approaching.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I always saw that duty rosters change every week. Not every shift may have the same people on duty, including Picard. Certain circumstances may require department heads to be on shift together, though, but that "alpha" shift could be at any time during the day when necessary, IMO.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

So in TNG: Chain of Command its stated Enterprise has a 3-shift rotation. Now it's hardly the same as a Starship but years ago I used to work in a 24hr place, and there were three shifts one after each other so it was always manned-
7am-3pm
3pm-11pm
11pm-7am

That's an 8 hour shift, pretty standard. So I'm guessing the Enterprise does something similar. Then Jellico wants to change it to a 4-shift rotation.

I just wondered what does that actually mean? So I presume maybe the shifts would be something like-
6am-12pm
12pm-6pm
6pm-12am
12am-6am

So did the crew then only have to work 6 hours a day? Then they actually got more free time? That doesn't sound very efficient.
Or do you have to work two of those 4 shifts, which would be 12 hours a day... but if they were one after the other you might as well call it a 2-shift rotation of two 12 hrs, as if not when the hell are you meant to get a decent sleep?

It would probably be a 6-hour shift every day, no off days, until conflict is resolved.

Pretty decent if you ask me.

 

[Cyke101]

I just assumed that the 3-shift day on the Enterprise-D meant eight hours each of:

-work
-recreation/non-work
-sleep

Like it's supposed to be theoretically in real life (not counting commutes, b/c obviously you live where you work on a starship). But I say that not knowing how it is in the military, or if the 26 hour day was a Bajoran thing and not a Starfleet thing, so more knowledgeable folk, please feel free to correct where you can.

With that said, i'm also a bit confused by Jellico's 6 hour shift. I know Jellico wanted the ship at heightened readiness, which makese sense, but Riker complained that it would drain too much of the crew's energy. What would the 4th shift for a regular crewmember look like?

 

[Ethros]

I guess Riker meant that there weren't enough people to go around. If it is like I said, and you go from 3 shifts in 24 hrs to 4 shifts, then either you need to get in more people to cover that, or there will be less people working in a shift.

So if there were 60 people in a department, a 3 shift rotation would have 20 working per shift. A 4 shift rotation would have to cut it down to 15 per shift. So maybe that's what he was concerned about I presume; the problems that would cause.

 

[Cyke101]

I guess Riker meant that there weren't enough people to go around. If it is like I said, and you go from 3 shifts in 24 hrs to 4 shifts, then either you need to get in more people to cover that, or there will be less people working in a shift.

So if there were 60 people in a department, a 3 shift rotation would have 20 working per shift. A 4 shift rotation would have to cut it down to 15 per shift. So maybe that's what he was concerned about I presume; the problems that would cause.

Thanks for breaking that down. I also forgot to realize that if a shift is (ideally) devoted to sleeping, then a 3 shift rotation would allocate 8 hours of sleep while a 4 shift rotation would mean 6 hours of sleep, which would could wear the crew down.

 

[Admiral2]

I keep forgetting how many trekkies actually think Jellicoe was a bad captain.

A ship as automated as Ent-D was supposed to be is actually overmanned, given that it can accomodate hundreds of extraneous personnel (families, visiting dignitaries and scientists) and still function normally. In this case, there will be plenty of crew members available for the rotation change because Jellicoe changed the ship's primary mission from exploration and defense to solely defense, freeing up the percentage of the crew who's main job is counting gas clouds and observing alien plankton to back up the crew who's main jobs are killing people and breaking things. With that done, he could afford to change the shifts so that defenders and explorers alike could get in more rest so that they'll all be fresher for the moment Red Alert sounds.

Riker's complaint about energy drain is a reaction to the mission itself couched in worry about the effect on the crew, which is mostly baseless. Again, done right, it benefits the crew and makes it more useful when the time comes. (Also, remember Riker's dialogue was designed to make Jellicoe look like an ass, and wasn't written by anybody who knows anything about how a ship actually works.)

 

[UssGlenn]

what if they kept a 1 on 2 off schedule but spread over a 4 shift day. Your on duty time would move around the clock. it would be like an 18 hour day.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

I guess Riker meant that there weren't enough people to go around. If it is like I said, and you go from 3 shifts in 24 hrs to 4 shifts, then either you need to get in more people to cover that, or there will be less people working in a shift.

So if there were 60 people in a department, a 3 shift rotation would have 20 working per shift. A 4 shift rotation would have to cut it down to 15 per shift. So maybe that's what he was concerned about I presume; the problems that would cause.

No, a 3 shift rotation of 60 people would be like 15 per shift.

What people don't realize is that even an 8 hour rotation has a fourth shift. This shift covers for when others have days off.

That's why I said above it would probably just be a work every day for 6 hours without any days off situation. This would keep everybody on top of their game, while giving them plenty of rest - that 2 extra hours can be tough mentally.

Riker was probably complaining about them having to work every day and their schedules being screwed up by this new scheme, ie. crew that had time off, now had to work, crew that didn't work together before had to get used to each other, there would have been mismatches where a specialist would have his position taken, so he would have to work somewhere else, etc etc. This can piss off a pampered crew.

From a tactical standpoint, Jellico was right; from morale point of view, probably not.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

what if they kept a 1 on 2 off schedule but spread over a 4 shift day. Your on duty time would move around the clock. it would be like an 18 hour day.

This is also a possibility. If you worked 6 hours, then had 12 off, it would mean that every station was double staffed at every shift. You would expect something like this during a battle I guess.

Does anyone remember if the bridge looked crowded during that episode?

 

[Ethros]

^ I just watched before starting this thread, and no it wasn't especially so.

I keep forgetting how many trekkies actually think Jellicoe was a bad captain.

Again, as I started this thread, just to clairfy I was just curious about what a 3 or 4 shift rotation actually was. For the record I don't think Jellico was a bad Captain at all.

Yeah if that ship were an Oberth-class ship on a boring science mission in peaceful territory then I'd understand the crew being pissed off with him, but the Enterprise is the flagship of the UFP's military branch, and most importantly the Federation was very possibly About. To. Go. To. War.
And you have Troi pulling a face because she's told (politely) to please wear proper uniform, rather than having her bosom on display for all to see, when she is after all, a Lt.Commander. And we're meant to feel bad for her? Please.
Watching it again after many years I honestly found all the Enterprise stuff in the 2-parter pretty laughable tbh.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I always work with a three-shift rotation for my fanfic, with an appointed Watch Officer assigned to command the other shifts.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Jellico is a great wartime captain and there was friction because they weren't at war at the time. The situation in Chain of Command was more Cardassia trying to threaten war as a diplomatic maneuver to expand territory. His strategy to drive the Cardassians out of the nebula was a good one but his weird theatrical negotiation tactic of storming out in anger was never going to be productive.

 

[B.J.]

Now that I think about it, I'd guess that the 4-shift rotation was actually more like 12 hours on / 12 hours off, with each shift offset by 6 hours so that they overlap.

For example, you work from 12am to 12pm, but the guy next to you works from 6am to 6pm. This is probably actually closer to the amount of time working per day on a current-day military ship. And the few times we saw alternate shifts in Trek, there did seem to be some personnel overlap.

 

[MacLeod]

Or another possibility in a 4 shift rotation is

6 hours on, 12 hours off, 6 hours on. So your shift pattern could be something like

00:00-06:00 - on
06:00-18:00 - off
18:00-00:00 - on
00:00-12:00 - off
12:00-18:00 - on
18:00-06:00 - off
06:00-12:00 - on
12:00-00:00 - off
etc...

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I've always thought Jellico was a good Captain. He was just written to be different from Picard and conflict with others for a bit of drama, but Starfleet wouldn't have assigned anyone but the best to take command the flagship.

When facing a bad situation as they were, having a four-shift rotation would be more efficient as the crew would be better rested and therefore be sharper when the shit hit the fan.

 

[Cyke101]

I keep forgetting how many trekkies actually think Jellicoe was a bad captain.

I don't think anybody up to this point in the thread was calling Jellico a bad captain, but I wanted to know the pros and cons between his 4 shift rotation vs. Riker's usual 3 shift.

 

[CTGuyton]

The "shifts" in Star Trek never really made any sense. Riker really never should have been on the bridge at the same time as Picard unless the ship was at alert.

Correct me if this has been discussed in books or anyone know current military policies but, I've always been under the impression that the captain is never "on shift" or "off shift". He's in command of the bridge when he's there, but there is also an assigned Bridge commander. Much the way shifts are handled in restaurants where there is often a Shift leader even when the GM is on duty.