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2016: Year of Superhero Overdrive

dahj

Vice Admiral
Admiral
We have 8 big movies coming this year: Deadpool, Batman v Superman, Captain America: Civil War, TMNT 2, X-Men: Apocalypse, Suicide Squad, Doctor Strange and Gambit.

There's also a bunch of TV series: Daredevil, Luke Cage, Agent Carter, Agents of Shield, Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow...

So, what are your predictions? Which ones do you think will do well, which one might not? Which ones are you personally looking forward to?

Do you think that the market is getting oversaturated, or have we not yet reached the peak of superhero popularity?
 
I have waited all my life to see my favorite heroes on the big or small screen with quality writing and effects that do justice to super powers. I'm hoping that this fad doesn't end anytime soon.
 
I am so done with superheroes. I like the X-Men franchise. I liked Phase 1 of the Avengers, but that series is now starting to feel really tedious. I haven't watched any of the TV shows.

I like superheroes, but I'm ready for a break. There's just too much stuff to keep up with, and it's all starting to bleed together.
 
It's simple supply & demand. They still make money, so now even z-list heros are getting their own movies. They will keep increasing the number of movies until they reach the limit of the market.
 
I love superheroes, and I will never get tired of them. The more the merrier, I say. As for next year, I'll tentatively rank them in terms of my excitement, not a guess at quality or anything like that:

Captain America: Civil War
Deadpool
Doctor Strange
X-Men: Apocalypse
Batman v Superman
Suicide Squad
Gambit

Deadpool and Captain America are neck and neck, but Cap gets a bit of a bump for being a MCU movie and being based on a event I really, really like. Doctor Strange and X-Men: Apocalypse also look very good, and I can't waiut to see them. I'm more cautious for Batman v Superman, but I'm actually hopefully that it could be pretty good, although probably not as good as the movies listed above it. Suicide Squad looks interesting, but the PG-13 rating is pretty lame and I think it could be a bit of a trainwreck (although one I'm interested in seeing). I have no expectations or excitement for Gambit. I don't care about the character at all, so while it could be great its the only movie on the list that I don't have any excitement or interest in. I'm sure I'll still see it, since I watch almost all superhero movies that come out, but unless it gets glowing reviews its something I'll catch on DVD when the library gets it.
 
Cap could take a hit from repeating the heroes fighting angle of BvS; on the other hand, BvS could suffer from not even being an early summer movie.

Given its massive budget and narrative foundation of the DCCU (I'm still calling it that even if WB isn't), BvS will have to make a billion to be considered successful. Given that MoS only made $670m worldwide, however, I can definitely see it topping out around $850-900m. At this point it looks as though the Justice League movies will be made even if BvS underperforms, though.

Deadpool, Suicide Squad and Gambit are all risky propositions, and I'm still not at all convinced the general public wants or will embrace Doctor Strange, but no one's yet made any grocery cash betting against the MCU. Deadpool in particular could easily go the way of Dredd, but I don't think so.

Ultimately, I don't predict any of these will outright belly-flop a la Fant4stic or Terminator Garbagesysh. A boring prediction, but there it is. X-Men may disappoint, though, coming off the high of mixing the two casts and introducing a bunch of younguns. Star Trek Beyond may well be greeted with international shrugs also.

As for market oversaturation, I've said it many times before, but I think the NFL is vastly oversaturated, and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere, so I don't see why superheroes should, either. :p
 
I don't buy the idea of a genre being oversaturated. How many cop shows are on the air? How many sitcoms about families have there been?

And superheroes aren't a single genre. They're a mashup of a whole bunch of different genres. There's room for enormous diversity, as we've seen already in the MCU and will be seeing more of with films like Suicide Squad and Deadpool. Again, look at something like cop shows or FBI procedurals. The routine, ordinary ones are unimpressive, but there are shows that fall within the procedural format while still being innovative and compelling. Genre is just a framework. It's a starting point for stories, not a set of limits.
 
^^
You can't really compare family and crime shows to superhero shows.
Family and crime are a staple of human condition, those shows are always relevant. Superhero shows can and most often are about family and/or crime themselves.

But genres do wax and wane in popularity. At the turn of the century there were a ton of space based sci-fi shows; at the start of this decade, virtually none.
 
^^
You can't really compare family and crime shows to superhero shows.
Family and crime are a staple of human condition, those shows are always relevant. Superhero shows can and most often are about family and/or crime themselves.

Which is my point. Superhero shows are essentially a subset of crime procedurals. Crime may be a staple etc., but look at how many crime shows are about FBI agents specifically. FBI agents are a particular subset of crimefighters, just as superheroes are. They have their own associated set of tropes and conventions and visual identifiers that differentiate them from other types of crimefighter. Same for beat cops or hardboiled private eyes or whatever.

And, yes, superhero shows also have an SF/fantasy element, but so do a lot of procedurals, like The X-Files, Fringe, Sleepy Hollow, Almost Human, Minority Report, etc. Indeed, superhero fiction is intrinsically one big genre mashup. Sometimes it's procedural and SF, sometimes procedural and fantasy, sometimes action and horror, sometimes SF and comedy, etc. The whole genre evolved as an outgrowth of other genres. The earliest superhero comics grew out of pulp literature, combining elements of both pulp sci-fi and pulp crime/detective stories. Early comics experimented with a wild variety of genres from sci-fi to fantasy to horror to Westerns. The Marvel Age of comics took on its distinctive character by absorbing elements from Timely's previous lines of monster, sci-fi, and romance comics.


But genres do wax and wane in popularity. At the turn of the century there were a ton of space based sci-fi shows; at the start of this decade, virtually none.

And now we're suddenly seeing a resurgence of space shows. So a temporary lull did not mean the end of the genre. And space shows are just a subset of sci-fi. SF shows didn't go away; we still got plenty of them, just ones set mainly on present-day Earth. It was a shift in emphasis and style within the genre, rather than a loss of interest in the genre as a whole. Superheroes are also a genre with a lot of different subsets -- grounded street-level action, techno-sci-fi, superpowered adventure, high fantasy, comedy, you name it.

True, there were a million Westerns on TV in the '60s and hardly any today. There's no guarantee that a genre will remain viable. But my point is that there's no guarantee it won't. It's easily possible for a genre to remain popular for decades. There's no inevitable point of overload, certainly not one that people can see coming. People have been predicting superhero franchise fatigue for many years now, and the genre's just gotten bigger and more popular since. I'm pretty sure I remember some people predicting that Batman Begins would surely bomb because people were tired of Batman.

Really, we're only just beginning to see the true range of the superhero genre within the past few years. We're seeing it branch out in more diverse directions than ever before. Not just more diverse types of storytelling, from the upbeat fun of Ant-Man and Supergirl to the grit of Powers and Jessica Jones, but more diversification of the sex and ethnicity of superheroes, which should bring in new audiences. The more diverse a population is, the better its ability to adapt to change, spread into new niches, and avoid extinction. So I don't think superhero movies and shows will be going anywhere anytime soon. Even if they decline from their peak, they'll still be around in various forms for a long time to come.
 
Agreed re: cop shows etc, it's just a genre. It's like saying you're sick of Horror movies. I can understand the difference though, in that a horror movie like It Follows or Sinister or whatnot can just come and go and you might not see much of it, whereas a superhero movie is all big summer releases with in-your-face constant marketing.

Which leads me to comments like this...
I am so done with superheroes. I like the X-Men franchise. I liked Phase 1 of the Avengers, but that series is now starting to feel really tedious. I haven't watched any of the TV shows.
I like superheroes, but I'm ready for a break. There's just too much stuff to keep up with, and it's all starting to bleed together.
So are you saying you're sick of seeing them everywhere and would rather have the "Big Summer Blockbuster" slots used for other kinds of movies? Or simply just saying you're not a fan anymore? As if the latter well then just don't watch them; there really isn't a problem. Just as how a non-horror movie fan won't go see new horror movies and let's those who do get on with it.

If it's the former I can sort of understand, but with Independence Day 2, Star Trek: Beyond, Warcraft, GhostBusters 3, Jason Bourne 4 (or 5), and from 2017 Star Wars-every-Summer-forever, Fast & Furious movies every other year.... I don't know what you want.
 
Agreed re: cop shows etc, it's just a genre. It's like saying you're sick of Horror movies. I can understand the difference though, in that a horror movie like It Follows or Sinister or whatnot can just come and go and you might not see much of it, whereas a superhero movie is all big summer releases with in-your-face constant marketing.

Which leads me to comments like this...
I am so done with superheroes. I like the X-Men franchise. I liked Phase 1 of the Avengers, but that series is now starting to feel really tedious. I haven't watched any of the TV shows.
I like superheroes, but I'm ready for a break. There's just too much stuff to keep up with, and it's all starting to bleed together.
So are you saying you're sick of seeing them everywhere and would rather have the "Big Summer Blockbuster" slots used for other kinds of movies? Or simply just saying you're not a fan anymore? As if the latter well then just don't watch them; there really isn't a problem. Just as how a non-horror movie fan won't go see new horror movies and let's those who do get on with it.

If it's the former I can sort of understand, but with Independence Day 2, Star Trek: Beyond, Warcraft, GhostBusters 3, Jason Bourne 4 (or 5), and from 2017 Star Wars-every-Summer-forever, Fast & Furious movies every other year.... I don't know what you want.
It's the former. It would be one thing if it was just "superheroes" in general. But it's not. It's all the Avengers movies. It's all one big long series, and I'm just starting to get bored with it. And I'm annoyed because I don't want to get bored with it! I loved the first phase of those films, but there's just too many of them at this point, and I can't stay interested.

Honestly, what I want is something NEW. Something ORIGINAL.

I want the next big popular thing to be unique, not just a retelling of a pre-existing property. I'm trying to think of the last big film series that wasn't based off of a book, comic, or earlier movie. "The Matrix," maybe? And that was a long ass time ago.
 
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Honestly, what I want is something NEW. Something ORIGINAL.

I want the next big popular thing to be unique, not just a retelling of a pre-existing property. I'm trying to think of the last big film series that wasn't based off of a book, comic, or earlier movie. "The Matrix," maybe? And that was a long ass time ago.
That's fair enough. I mean obviously we all know why- $$$, and the fear of losing $$$ on something people don't know about.

I just mean you can't really single out "comic" books I think to be fair, with Hunger Games, Divergent/Insurgant whatever they are, Maze Runner, Twilight, Harry Potter, LotR, The Hobbit, hell even 50 Shades of Grey.

There'll be a Scrotie McBoogerballs movie next :lol:



I can understand it too when, say especially when the Tom Holland Spider-Man solo movie is coming out, and people are like "oh god not another reboot" but movies like the upcoming Doctor Strange... I've never read a Doctor Strange comic, I like Marvel but I really don't know much about the character, same for the also upcoming Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Inhumans etc movies. Just like how it was for Guardians of the Galaxy & Ant-Man films, yeah they're based on comic books but it's new to the vast majority of people seeing it. I suppose that's how people look at it anyway.


And then hey everyone in the world seems to be creaming themselves over the Force Awakens, don't get me wrong I really enjoyed it but the plot and events are hardly new or original (but that's probably an topic for another thread :) )
 
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For me the oversaturation thing isn't really an issue. As with everything else, it just comes down to which character or story I'm interested in seeing, or which movie or TV show is well made enough that I'll want to keep watching.

And frankly if the market is going to be oversaturated, I'd rather it be with cool and colorful superheroes than tired police procedurals, medical dramas, and lawyer shows. ;)
 
^Hear, hear.

Of the eight films listed in the OP, I only plan to see four of those myself. I'm only enthusiastic about one of them, cautiously optimistic about another, and curious about a third. The fourth I'd be seeing more out of habit.
 
And frankly if the market is going to be oversaturated, I'd rather it be with cool and colorful superheroes than tired police procedurals, medical dramas, and lawyer shows. ;)

Fair enough. I think I'm just ready to see what the next "big thing" is going to be. Superheroes can keep doing their thing; I've started losing interest, but that doesn't mean I want the genre to die or anything since there are obviously people who enjoy it.

We had our Harry Potter phase and our Lord of the Rings phase. Vampires were cool because of "Twilight," and then zombies became a thing. Right now, in the midst of superheroes, we seem to be in the middle of a "young adult novel adaptation" phase, with Hunger Games, Divergent, The Maze Runner, etc.

Based on a couple trailers I've seen for this summer (The 5th Wave, ID4: Resurgence), could alien movies be making a comeback? With new Star Wars, Star Trek, Prometheus2/Alien5/whatever coming out, maybe we'll see a new excitement for outer space films? I certainly wouldn't complain about that.
 
We had our Harry Potter phase and our Lord of the Rings phase. Vampires were cool because of "Twilight," and then zombies became a thing. Right now, in the midst of superheroes, we seem to be in the middle of a "young adult novel adaptation" phase, with Hunger Games, Divergent, The Maze Runner, etc.
But that "vampire craze" last what, let's say around 5 years- around the whole Twilight, True Blood, Vampire Diaries etc thing. Superhero movies have been big since the boom started in 2000 with X-Men, and it wasn't long before you saw a Spider-Man, Daredevil, Hulk, etc everywhere.

I think the only reason they weren't big prior to 2000 was a lot of people had bad memories of certain cheesy attempts, but mainly just that SFX technology wasn't there. You couldn't do a big Hulk movie in the 80s or 90s and really do them justice visually. Or a Spider-Man, or a Ghost Rider, or a Fantastic Four, an Iron Man, a Watchmen, etc etc

(and yeah I know James Cameron wanted to do a Spider-Man in the 90s, and there was that FF movie, but that basically proves my point)


Yeah there a lot more of these movies in 2016, but mostly for the past few years its been around 4 or so. And even in 2003 you had Daredevil, X-Men 2, Hulk, League of Exatraodinary Gentlemen. And in 2004 there was Hellboy, The Punisher, Spider-Man 2, Catwoman and Blade 3. That's five... there were only three in 2015 (Avengers 2, Ant-Man and the new FF)


So I don't get how people make out like its some really recent thing, and like the MCU is to blame. (not saying thats you RoJoHen, but I've seen people claim that elsewhere on this board and the rest of the internet)
 
I think all the television, Netflix shows will do well. Most of them are already established, except for Cage (and that might initially do well based on Jessica Jones' reception spiking interest) and Legends of Tomorrow, which Arrow and Flash have helped set up.

Now when it comes to movies I think the biggest question marks are Deadpool, Dr. Strange, Suicide Squad, Gambit. All of those could underperform. I can't see any of them outright flopping, but if I did call a flop I'm going to say Gambit. I think Suicide Squad's casting and with the Joker and Batman might help it out though and if expectations are lowered, same with Deadpool, for a harder hitting, not as family friendly kind of comic book film.

I think Captain America, X-Men, and Batman v. Superman will all do well. However I think Batman v. Superman is in the greatest danger among those three of not doing as well at the box office as I think Warners and DC will want or need it to.
 
But that "vampire craze" last what, let's say around 5 years- around the whole Twilight, True Blood, Vampire Diaries etc thing.

Are you kidding? Vampire movies and shows have been popular pretty much continuously for decades. Before those things you cite, there was Being Human. Before that was Blade. Before that was Buffy and Angel. Before those were Anne Rice and Forever Knight. Before those were The Hunger and The Lost Boys. Before those were Dark Shadows and Hammer Horror, and before those was Bela Lugosi. I've been amazed many times over the years at the persistent failure of the vampire craze to die down (which is perhaps fitting).
 
^ I know, I was just talking about that specfic vampire phase that did happen a few years ago, as RoJoHen mentioned. There's always been vampire stuff but there was definitely more than usual around that time and with how popular it was. That's all
(leading to this cinematic masterpiece :) )

Just like obviously there were superhero movies before Blade/X-Men started the main boom.
 
^It just seems to me that with vampires, one "fad" pretty much blends directly into the next, and any perception of it being recent is just the result of short memories. There's actually a common fallacy called the Recency Illusion, a tendency to assume that something that's always been the case is only a recent trend.
 
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