1701 with Aztec'ing

[Waugh]

Just playing around to see what she would look like:

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k282/Benchmark_Avionics/Aztec_02.jpg

Of course I would have to add some paneling to the A & B decks, but I wanted to see what it would look like. This is also before video post etc., but give the idea.

What do you think about her with paneling?

 

[FalTorPan]

I generally dislike the "Aztec" look, so I'm not the person to ask.

 

[MarianLH]

Great idea, but it's too overdone in your example, so much so that it almost comes across as checkered.

I've read that the Defiant on ENT had aztec paneling; perhaps you might look into how that was done.


Marian

 

[Waugh]

Not sure what "overdone" means to you exactly, if you could be more specific that would help me understand your opinion.

If you are refering to the number of panels, I based that on the size of the plates more than anything else and was intentionally going for that number which also allowed for some more intersting panels. I'll look into the Defiant thing though, that might be interesting.

Soon I will be trekking to the NASM and meeting with the curator of the big E. =)

Thanks for the input, but try to be specific if you can or I have no idea what you mean.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Waugh said:
Not sure what "overdone" means to you exactly, if you could be more specific that would help me understand your opinion.

If you are refering to the number of panels, I based that on the size of the plates more than anything else and was intentionally going for that number which also allowed for some more intersting panels. I'll look into the Defiant thing though, that might be interesting.

Soon I will be trekking to the NASM and meeting with the curator of the big E. =)

Thanks for the input, but try to be specific if you can or I have no idea what you mean.

"Aztecing" was first used in TMP. It was done with the intention of being VERY SUBTLE, so that you just barely notice it. It should be almost subliminal.

The reality is that you wouldn't be able to see differences between plating in this fashion on a "real" ship of this size, when viewed from this distance. But you'd see tiny little hints of differences (weld seams, etc).

The reason it's called "aztecing" has to do with the original pattern used on the 1701 refit for TMP. The shape was vaguely like an ancient aztec pictogram.

The aztec shape was done so that you wouldnt' really pic it out, but you'd see some almost random variation, just at certain angles as the light hit those points.

What's meant by "overdone" is not that you have too many panels, but that your panels are so ... OVERTLY VISIBLE.

Make sense?

 

[Waugh]

Well, thanks for clarifing.

That is just the initial 18 hours work, it will look more like this model when finished with colors and better lighting:

Do you think it is over done on this one as well? Note you can see the panels from even farther away.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Waugh said:
Well, thanks for clarifing.

That is just the initial 18 hours work, it will look more like this model when finished with colors and better lighting:

Do you think it is over done on this one as well? Note you can see the panels from even farther away.

Fixed. The image tag on this bbs is spelled i-m-a-g-e, Waugh.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Waugh said:
Well, thanks for clarifing.

That is just the initial 18 hours work, it will look more like this model when finished with colors and better lighting:

Do you think it is over done on this one as well? Note you can see the panels from even farther away.

Nope, because much of it is nearly invisible there. You can clearly see the stuff on the engine pylons, but that's because of the angle that the light's hitting it from. Which is the point, really. As the camera moves and/or the light sources move, you go from seeing almost NO detail to, occasionaly, seening something like you see there. I have 2 1/2' x 4' (roughly) image of the TMP Enterprise, framed, hanging here. It's visible, definitely, but just barely... ie, if the focus was off just a little bit you wouldn't be able to see it at all.

Again, just dial in your colors so that they're all very close to each other. Experiment a bit, so you can see the variations if you really are looking but so you might overlook it if you weren't.

They did an OUTSTANDING job doing this in "Through a Mirror Darkly" on "Enterprise," with the Defiant as seen there. For the most part, you don't really notice the "aztecing" but in a few flyby shots it "pops out" at you. It really helped sell the SFX work, in my opinion, mainly because it was so subtle.

 

[Waugh]

Yes, but if you look under the main saucer in that shot you can clearly see it, and at a much greater distance, which is my point.

But anyway, like I said that was a very early version of that version. I still have much work to do on the material making it perlesenct etc.

Aztec'ing or paneling is certainly somewhat of a personal thing. The main reason it is absent in the TOS ship is that Jeffries resisted Roddenberry's grid, even penciling it in so lightly (intentionally) so that it wouldn't be visible on camera! Back in the 60's the cameras couldn't really pick up enough detail anyway, especially once the fx process further blurred it. That's why the model had to be so large as well.

Now things are quiet a bit different! Anyway, just playing around with the whole process which is very detailed to setup.

I too like the TOS ship the way it is, while being ok with the refit.

 

[Psion]

The other thing you might want to play with is basing the aztec patterns on specular brightness or hardness instead of color. This way you'd never see all the aztec patterns on the hull, you'd only see them when light catches them at certain angles. It will then be appropriately subtle, and if you base the color of the specularity on the angle of the camera with a color ramp, you'll get an opalescent quality similar to that seen in TMP.

The original paint job was a laborious handcrafted work of art by an airbrush artist experimenting with opalescent paints. He started with a white hull, then laid down transparent layers of opalescent green, pink, yellow, and blue until the finished work revealed details on the hull that shifted as you moved. According to reports, it was stunning to view in person.

It's a shame that ILM chose to destroy this delicate work with a topcoat so that it worked better with the photographic processes they preferred. I'll never quite forgive them for that.

 

[Waugh]

Actually, this is a highly complex multi-material that already makes use of diffuse, specular, and bump mapping.

I'm completely familiar with the painting of the TMP model, as well. It was repainted b/c in different shots they had to damage it etc., not because it didn't work well with their process. It is a shame they had to do that b/c of course they weren't going to spend 6 months repainting it to the original level. Should have had two models, and used a composite shot if you ask me, but then unfortunately they didn't call me for that idea, haha. =)

Anyway, if you look at the shot of the TMP model you can clearly see the amount of Aztec'ing on the hull. I just haven't added perlesence yet, or lights and a camera for that matter. This was really just a first test render b/c I was excited to see what it looked like.

I do agree it needs to be a bit more subtle in a sense, which will happen when I "shelac" it. Anyway, good to get a variety of opinions for ideas.

 

[Forbin]

I think the more important qiestion raised here is, how exactly does one apply the suffix "ing" to the word "aztec?" Because an apostrophe is definitely wrong. Apostrophes are aonly used in contractions to indicate a missing letter, or with a "s" to indicate a possessive noun. But "aztecing" still looks wrong to me. Would one add a "k" as in "picnicking?" Hm, actually, I think that's probably the answer.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

^^^

aztecking

 

[JBElliott]

However it's spelled, it's a bad idea for TOS Enterprise.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I like how Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise explained the aztecked hull of the refit: unlike the TOS version, Starfleet decided not to paint it.